It is currently Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:37 pm

All times are UTC+01:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 1289 posts ]  Go to page Previous 127 28 29 30 3152 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:08 pm 
Offline
Major General
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 33178
I'm at the point where I won't believe anything until it happens.

_________________
barcelona wrote:
Pics of Someguy naked wrapped in bacon........


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:26 pm 
Offline
Holyman
Holyman
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 16904
Location: Earth
How *DO* you believe in something that hasn’t happened..?

Belief.

That’s the single biggest mistake this species ever made: trusting what they believe.

How can you put your trust in something you merely believe?

How can you put your trust in something you have no or insufficient evidence for?

How can you put your trust in something you don’t understand?

I mean… It’s gotten beyond a joke now. A lot of people still insist on believing stuff, even *WHEN* they are confronted with evidence that disproves their beliefs.

What’s *THAT* all about..?!?

Honestly…

Try to imagine a World where decisions, policies and behaviours may *ONLY* be based on factual understanding.

And basing any decision or policy on something you merely believe, is a punishable offence.

With exile being the punishment for continuing to base your behaviour on something you believe, *AFTER* you have been presented with evidence that disproves your belief…

*WHY* are Human Beings still trying to run their World based on what they believe, rather than what they understand to be True?

III/O

_________________
Image

"To be hopeful in bad times is not just foolishly romantic. It is based on the fact that human history is a history not only of cruelty, but also of compassion, sacrifice, courage, kindness. What we choose to emphasize in this complex history will determine our lives. If we see only the worst, it destroys our capacity to do something. If we remember those times and places—and there are so many—where people have behaved magnificently, this gives us the energy to act, and at least the possibility of sending this spinning top of a world in a different direction. And if we do act, in however small a way, we don’t have to wait for some grand utopian future. The future is an infinite succession of presents, and to live now as we think human beings should live, in defiance of all that is bad around us, is itself a marvellous victory." - Howard Zinn


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:39 pm 
Offline
Major General
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 33178
I'm at the point where I will know nothing until it is true.

_________________
barcelona wrote:
Pics of Someguy naked wrapped in bacon........


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:25 pm 
Offline
Colonel
Colonel
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:00 pm
Posts: 20119
Holyman wrote:
This vote and more particularly, yesterday's vote on the Finance Bill, are extraordinarily clear signs that Theresa May is likely to be out of her job by the end of next week.

And that there will be a Second Referendum.

And that the UK will not exit the EU.

And that Jeremy Corbyn will become Prime Minister (and re-Nationalise all public utilities and infrastructure services).

Extraordinarily clear signs.

>*^*<


=))

My what an imagination you've got there!

I'll be fair and admit that perhaps Teresa May won't survive the month politically speaking and if and when Labour becomes majority again it perhaps would choose Corbyn.

But all of that and all by Valentine's Day? Mate, that's just a giggle.

_________________
Ill sell ya the rope with which you shall hang yourself.
Capitalism for the Win.

PCNC and PBF live in death!


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:53 pm 
Offline
Lieutenant-Colonel
Lieutenant-Colonel
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:00 pm
Posts: 19213
Location: teh internet
Slacks wrote:
I'm at the point where I will know nothing until it is true.


Deep Thoughts by Slacks Handey


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:54 pm 
Offline
Major General
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 33178
SomeGuy wrote:
Holyman wrote:
This vote and more particularly, yesterday's vote on the Finance Bill, are extraordinarily clear signs that Theresa May is likely to be out of her job by the end of next week.

And that there will be a Second Referendum.

And that the UK will not exit the EU.

And that Jeremy Corbyn will become Prime Minister (and re-Nationalise all public utilities and infrastructure services).

Extraordinarily clear signs.

>*^*<


=))

My what an imagination you've got there!

I'll be fair and admit that perhaps Teresa May won't survive the month politically speaking and if and when Labour becomes majority again it perhaps would choose Corbyn.

But all of that and all by Valentine's Day? Mate, that's just a giggle.


Like you know when Valentine's Day is.

_________________
barcelona wrote:
Pics of Someguy naked wrapped in bacon........


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:47 pm 
Offline
Major General
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 33178
Quote:
The closure of the third day of debate on Brexit descended into a farce as both the foreign secretary and shadow foreign secretary debated analogies of children’s film Lassie.
....
Mr Hunt responded saying Lassie was one of his “favourite childhood films”, adding: “Lassie of course in that story was given to a member of the aristocracy, in fact the Duke of Rudling, but Lassie wasn’t happy and she broke free without any kind of referendum and she came home, there is a lesson for all of us.”


Fuck off

_________________
barcelona wrote:
Pics of Someguy naked wrapped in bacon........


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:27 pm 
Offline
Holyman
Holyman
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 16904
Location: Earth
That could well become Mr. Hunt's "Let them eat cake." moment.

>&8~

_________________
Image

"To be hopeful in bad times is not just foolishly romantic. It is based on the fact that human history is a history not only of cruelty, but also of compassion, sacrifice, courage, kindness. What we choose to emphasize in this complex history will determine our lives. If we see only the worst, it destroys our capacity to do something. If we remember those times and places—and there are so many—where people have behaved magnificently, this gives us the energy to act, and at least the possibility of sending this spinning top of a world in a different direction. And if we do act, in however small a way, we don’t have to wait for some grand utopian future. The future is an infinite succession of presents, and to live now as we think human beings should live, in defiance of all that is bad around us, is itself a marvellous victory." - Howard Zinn


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:52 pm 
Offline
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:42 am
Posts: 25443
Bruxut.


Please kill me bored already

_________________
Empir immoto


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:05 am 
Offline
Major General
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 33178
barcelona wrote:
Bruxut.


Please kill me bored already


"Already"? It's been over two years!

_________________
barcelona wrote:
Pics of Someguy naked wrapped in bacon........


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:43 pm 
Offline
Major General
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 33178
So the awarding of the ferry contracts (including to a company with no ferries. Or assets) was done under Regulation 32, which allows the government to award contracts without a tender process in the event of unforeseen urgency.

Here's the government showing real accountability for that decision

https://twitter.com/lumi_1984/status/10 ... 94594?s=09

_________________
barcelona wrote:
Pics of Someguy naked wrapped in bacon........


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:09 pm 
Offline
Major General
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 33178
Quote:
I think there’s now a genuine danger that we may end up having a second referendum on the EU. Huge forces are working on this and will try to get their way in the weeks to come. Prepare for an ambush.

I opposed the first one, and refused to take part or vote in it, you can imagine just how much I dread and hate the idea of another.

...

In my view, the whole thing was only very slightly about the EU anyway.

It was a great howl of protest from the powerless, at the dozens of ways in which an arrogant elite spurn their concerns, mock their common sense and dismiss them unjustly as bigots.

If our leaders don’t now pay careful attention to this fury, it will find other much more dangerous outlets. And if Parliament and the big parties keep shying away from doing the jobs they are paid to do, then they will make themselves redundant. I don’t want this to happen at all. I just think it will happen if our governing classes carry on behaving like this.


https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk ... -dead.html

_________________
barcelona wrote:
Pics of Someguy naked wrapped in bacon........


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:38 pm 
Offline
Lieutenant-Colonel
Lieutenant-Colonel
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:00 pm
Posts: 18628
I dig me some Hitchens, pompous twat that he is.

Peter Hitchens 13-01-2019

Britain cannot possibly afford its welfare state for much longer. Most people do not realise that state handouts (£207 billion a year) mop up every penny we pay in income tax (£155 billion a year).
Everything else, the NHS, schools, transport, police, defence, interest on the debt (nearly £50 billion a year, by the way) must be paid for by other taxes, including the vast sums raked in by so-called ‘National Insurance’, or by more borrowing.
As we are more or less bankrupt as a country, such generosity is not noble but plain idiotic. Yet we will not stop doing it. Change is politically impossible.
Last week’s fuss about supposed cuts in benefits was a sign of the swamp we are in.
There were, as usual, no actual cuts. A hesitant plan to cap future increases was met with angry hostility by many in politics and the media.
Emotions were immediately engaged and slammed into top gear. That is because this immense and unaffordable attempt to substitute the State for the married family is at the heart of the political revolution which began 50 years ago and is now reaching its sad and bankrupt end.
The very idea that people should provide for themselves has become a horrible heresy, a barbaric view that no civilised person can hold. We’ll see.
My own guess is that a hurricane of inflation will, over the next ten years, rip the welfare state up by the roots and leave us impoverished, diminished and baffled, wondering what happened to us.
Here’s what we spend.
One wholly justifiable payment is the old-age pension, which is startlingly mean but still takes up almost £80 billion a year, more than a third of the welfare budget.
Disability Living Allowance (3.38 million recipients) costs £13.43 billion.
Housing Benefit (5.04 million recipients) costs £23 billion; its close cousin Council Tax Benefit (5.9 million recipients) costs £4.92 billion.
Incapacity Benefit costs £3.22 billion; Income Support costs £5.3 billion. Jobseeker’s Allowance costs £5.26 billion.
I might add, because I continue to believe that this particular form of welfare very often hurts those to whom it is offered, that there are now 567,000 fatherless households being subsidised by the taxpayer.
Look at these figures and gasp. Where is the cash to come from? Think what else we might do with it.
I am sure a lot of welfare money goes to people who need and deserve it, whose problems are no fault of their own.
But I am just as sure that a lot of it goes to people who do not deserve it.
And on top of that, I know from my letters and emails how many people there are who have worked and saved all their lives, and who are therefore excluded from the most important benefits, when they need them most.
The working poor, who live next door to people whom they know to be cheating, are the most outraged by these abuses, and the most powerless to change them.
The new political elite, who hope to buy votes and power through handing out other people’s money, will not stop doing so until that money runs out.
And so we ramble merrily towards the edge of the abyss, making lemmings look responsible and far-sighted.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:47 pm 
Offline
Major General
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 33178
Wunderschlung wrote:
I dig me some Hitchens, pompous twat that he is.


lol! That is precisely how I feel about him. Has strong opinions whilst acknowledging that he can't have his preferred way e.g. he wants out the EU but reckons the EEA is the least disruptive compromise going.

_________________
barcelona wrote:
Pics of Someguy naked wrapped in bacon........


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:33 pm 
Offline
Major General
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 33178
An interesting look on how we had an almost identical challenge with the Irish border around 60 years ago when trying to join the EEC (to become the EU)

Quote:
Parliament’s current impasse is the culmination of a domestic political failure to solve an trilemma which has, in various forms, been left unresolved since the UK’s first attempt to join the then European Economic Community (EEC) in 1961.

The PM and the Brexit negotiations process have determined that parliament must choose between a maximum two of three options: 1) customs and regulatory alignment with Europe; 2) no hard border with Ireland, and; 3) an all-UK solution. These same red lines arose 60 years ago.

The move towards Europe began in 1959 when both Britain and Ireland both decided to establish diplomatic relations with the EEC. However, there were fears in Dublin that the EEC might approve the UK application but reject Ireland’s owing to its as yet under-developed economy.

Irish Taoiseach, Seán Lemass, warned that a UK-only entry would alter the customs and regulatory arrangements at the UK-Irish border in a way that would be very damaging for the island of Ireland, both for the all-island economy and for peace.

Around the same time the IRA had begun its Border Campaign. Attacks on customs posts and administrative infrastructure in Northern Ireland led the British Government to request Dublin to implement checks of goods and travellers crossing the border.

Dublin refused for much the same reasons as they insist on no hard border today. Westminster instead began to explore alternative arrangements for Northern Ireland

However, the Stormont Prime Minister Lord Brookeborough refused to sanction any arrangements which did not apply to the United Kingdom as a whole, characterising the Irish Government’s insistence on no checks at the border as "the first step in moving the border to the Irish Sea"

This, Brookeborough feared, would weaken Northern Ireland’s constitutional position within the UK. In familiar terms to today’s, he and other unionist leaders talked of a supposed hidden plot by Dublin.

Many MPs in Westminster were reported to be exasperated with the Unionist’s attitude to all-island economic co-operation to solve the border problem, believing Unionists had sacrificed Northern Ireland’s economic interests for their political ideals.

Sir Horace Algernon Fraser Rumbold, Deputy Under Secretary of the Commonwealth Relations Office, was quoted describing Unionist attitudes as "dog in the manger" stuff

When British Prime Minister Harold Macmillan tried to lead a divided Commons and Country to join the EEC in August 1961 his options were thus constrained by the wider geopolitical setting in which the UK still operates: our interdependence with our neighbours and trade partners.

Despite vociferous opposition from his own back benches, Macmillan made clear that that “we shall not take the final step unless our Commonwealth and other obligations can be reconciled”.

The Cabinet was divided and there were calls for a new leader. A hard right Tory back-bench group, the Monday Club, began coordinating with Ulster Unionist MPs to attack and undermine the PM. The Tory party was even rumoured to be on the verge of splitting over its EEC divisions.

In an attempt to convince his doubters, the PM began repeating select political slogans ad nauseam every time he was interviewed, for which he was widely ridiculed in the press.

He also made appeals to the opposition for support, but without success. The Labour Party wanted a general election.

In the end, European (especially French) leaders’ distrust that Britain would stick to its commitments meant the UK was not permitted to join the EEC until both the UK and Ireland did so together in 1973.

Instead the UK opted to join the European Free Trade Association (EFTA), established as an alternative trade bloc for those states that were unable or unwilling to join the then EEC.

The main difference between the EEC and the EFTA was that the EFTA did not operate common external customs tariffs. Each EFTA member was free to set its customs duties and negotiate its own free trade agreements with countries around the world.

Fast forward to 2019. On Tuesday, Parliament will again attempt to reach a decision on this trilemma it has been unable to resolve for 60-odd years. While a half-way-house EFTA/EEA is again possible, the key difference this time is that ending up with no deal is not an option.


https://twitter.com/SNevin1/status/1084 ... 16225?s=19

TL;DR version

Image

_________________
barcelona wrote:
Pics of Someguy naked wrapped in bacon........


Top
   
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:58 pm 
Offline
Holyman
Holyman
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 16904
Location: Earth
Slacks wrote:
Image


Holyboy 2.0 (10 y/o) followed that ^^^.

Let there be no more questions on the matter.

[-X

_________________
Image

"To be hopeful in bad times is not just foolishly romantic. It is based on the fact that human history is a history not only of cruelty, but also of compassion, sacrifice, courage, kindness. What we choose to emphasize in this complex history will determine our lives. If we see only the worst, it destroys our capacity to do something. If we remember those times and places—and there are so many—where people have behaved magnificently, this gives us the energy to act, and at least the possibility of sending this spinning top of a world in a different direction. And if we do act, in however small a way, we don’t have to wait for some grand utopian future. The future is an infinite succession of presents, and to live now as we think human beings should live, in defiance of all that is bad around us, is itself a marvellous victory." - Howard Zinn


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:14 am 
Offline
Major General
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 33178
Holyman wrote:



Your money still on no Brexit or delayed Brexit?

_________________
barcelona wrote:
Pics of Someguy naked wrapped in bacon........


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:36 pm 
Offline
Holyman
Holyman
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 16904
Location: Earth
Yup.

It's Corbyn's to lose at the moment.

I don’t see any way that Theresa May gets her deal through Parliament tomorrow. (Not saying there isn’t a way… Just saying I don’t see it.)

And given that, I don’t see any way that May retains her position after that.

Because it is now starting to look like she is part of the problem, rather than a solution provider.

See, for the last two years, she’s been able to position herself as having been handed a poisoned chalice, and is trying to make the best of the situation. And this has earned her a large degree of sympathy and patience, in the eyes of your typical Brit.

But if her deal doesn’t get voted through tomorrow, and she doesn’t resign, then it can *ONLY* be apparent that she is putting her own interests ahead of the Nation.

And such a position will see the general Public sympathy she still enjoys, evaporate.

Corbyn & Co. have been getting flack recently for not making their position clearer with regards the Brexit shenanigans. I am quietly hopeful that this is just a strategy to keep to Media focus on Theresa and her Tories.

I can see a Motion of No Confidence (in the Government) passing, if Labour gets the timing right. That should then trigger a General Election (subject to the technicalities of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act).

It may be logistically and/or legally difficult to hold a General Election in the time remaining before March 29th. In which case, the EU will likely agree to an extension of that deadline. Particularly if Corbyn and the Labour Party indicate that a Second Referendum, or other plebiscite on the UK’s membership of the EU, will be held before, during or shortly after any G.E.

Shopping List:

May’s deal fails to be approved by Parliament tomorrow;

May announces her resignation immediately afterwards;

Corbyn announces Motion of No Confidence in current UK Government;

No Confidence Motion passes;

Labour wins General Election;

Labour proposes its own deal to the EU…

This is the bit where Corbyn could fuck it up…

*IF* there is to be a Brexit Deal and the UK is to leave the EU, it can only work one way:

The UK and EU identify all the elements of the Deal that they *DO* have full agreement on.

EU:UK v2.0 is then implemented immediately, managing all of the uncontentious, non-headline-grabbing technical stuff (that will allow businesses to mostly get on with business).

Meanwhile…

“Special”/”Transition” arrangements continue to be discussed for all of the problematic stuff (Irish borders; Customs Unions; Status of EU Nationals &c.). If necessary, an EU:UK v1.5 pipeline is brought online to handle all the “Special” stuff, until final agreements have been reached. Or, all activities pertinent to the unresolved stuff, just keeps flowing through EU:UK v1.0, until final agreements are reached on the specific topics.

But since this approach would pretty much fry the brains of the most ardent “Leave” *AND* “Remain” users… It ain’t gonna happen.

So Corbyn has to come up with a new deal, that is also never, ever going to be approved in total by all stakeholders…

…But which *CAN* be put to UK voters to approve or disapprove, in a plebiscite where “Cancel Brexit” will *ALSO* be an option.

If Corbyn & Co. don’t fuck that up, then the Second Referendum will be held, and Brexit will be cancelled. Corbyn and Labour will be heralded for steering the UK away from the Brexit “Cliff”.

And the Conservative Party will split in two, and never, ever again form a British Government.

It’ll all be worth it in the end..!

:-bd

_________________
Image

"To be hopeful in bad times is not just foolishly romantic. It is based on the fact that human history is a history not only of cruelty, but also of compassion, sacrifice, courage, kindness. What we choose to emphasize in this complex history will determine our lives. If we see only the worst, it destroys our capacity to do something. If we remember those times and places—and there are so many—where people have behaved magnificently, this gives us the energy to act, and at least the possibility of sending this spinning top of a world in a different direction. And if we do act, in however small a way, we don’t have to wait for some grand utopian future. The future is an infinite succession of presents, and to live now as we think human beings should live, in defiance of all that is bad around us, is itself a marvellous victory." - Howard Zinn


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:18 pm 
Offline
Lieutenant-Colonel
Lieutenant-Colonel
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:00 pm
Posts: 19213
Location: teh internet
Holyman wrote:
Yup.

It's Corbyn's to lose at the moment.

I don’t see any way that Theresa May gets her deal through Parliament tomorrow. (Not saying there isn’t a way… Just saying I don’t see it.)

And given that, I don’t see any way that May retains her position after that.

Because it is now starting to look like she is part of the problem, rather than a solution provider.

See, for the last two years, she’s been able to position herself as having been handed a poisoned chalice, and is trying to make the best of the situation. And this has earned her a large degree of sympathy and patience, in the eyes of your typical Brit.

But if her deal doesn’t get voted through tomorrow, and she doesn’t resign, then it can *ONLY* be apparent that she is putting her own interests ahead of the Nation.

And such a position will see the general Public sympathy she still enjoys, evaporate.

Corbyn & Co. have been getting flack recently for not making their position clearer with regards the Brexit shenanigans. I am quietly hopeful that this is just a strategy to keep to Media focus on Theresa and her Tories.

I can see a Motion of No Confidence (in the Government) passing, if Labour gets the timing right. That should then trigger a General Election (subject to the technicalities of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act).

It may be logistically and/or legally difficult to hold a General Election in the time remaining before March 29th. In which case, the EU will likely agree to an extension of that deadline. Particularly if Corbyn and the Labour Party indicate that a Second Referendum, or other plebiscite on the UK’s membership of the EU, will be held before, during or shortly after any G.E.

Shopping List:

May’s deal fails to be approved by Parliament tomorrow;

May announces her resignation immediately afterwards;

Corbyn announces Motion of No Confidence in current UK Government;

No Confidence Motion passes;

Labour wins General Election;

Labour proposes its own deal to the EU…

This is the bit where Corbyn could fuck it up…

*IF* there is to be a Brexit Deal and the UK is to leave the EU, it can only work one way:

The UK and EU identify all the elements of the Deal that they *DO* have full agreement on.

EU:UK v2.0 is then implemented immediately, managing all of the uncontentious, non-headline-grabbing technical stuff (that will allow businesses to mostly get on with business).

Meanwhile…

“Special”/”Transition” arrangements continue to be discussed for all of the problematic stuff (Irish borders; Customs Unions; Status of EU Nationals &c.). If necessary, an EU:UK v1.5 pipeline is brought online to handle all the “Special” stuff, until final agreements have been reached. Or, all activities pertinent to the unresolved stuff, just keeps flowing through EU:UK v1.0, until final agreements are reached on the specific topics.

But since this approach would pretty much fry the brains of the most ardent “Leave” *AND* “Remain” users… It ain’t gonna happen.

So Corbyn has to come up with a new deal, that is also never, ever going to be approved in total by all stakeholders…

…But which *CAN* be put to UK voters to approve or disapprove, in a plebiscite where “Cancel Brexit” will *ALSO* be an option.

If Corbyn & Co. don’t fuck that up, then the Second Referendum will be held, and Brexit will be cancelled. Corbyn and Labour will be heralded for steering the UK away from the Brexit “Cliff”.

And the Conservative Party will split in two, and never, ever again form a British Government.

It’ll all be worth it in the end..!

:-bd


Split conservative parties rarely last. 2 years later there will be a “unite the right” movement and newly branded official Cuntball party.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:45 pm 
Offline
Major General
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 33178
PBFMullethunter wrote:
Split conservative parties rarely last. 2 years later there will be a “unite the right” movement and newly branded official Cuntball party.


If the Tories split it would be possible they'd hook up with the UK Independence Party, who aren't fans of the EU or foreigners in general. Moderate Tories may form a centrist party with the Lib Dems and maybe even centrists from Labour. The third party would be Labour socialists.

Something for everyone!

_________________
barcelona wrote:
Pics of Someguy naked wrapped in bacon........


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:07 pm 
Offline
Colonel
Colonel
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:00 pm
Posts: 20119
Holyman wrote:
Yup.

It's Corbyn's to lose at the moment.

I don’t see any way that Theresa May gets her deal through Parliament tomorrow. (Not saying there isn’t a way… Just saying I don’t see it.)

And given that, I don’t see any way that May retains her position after that.

Because it is now starting to look like she is part of the problem, rather than a solution provider.

See, for the last two years, she’s been able to position herself as having been handed a poisoned chalice, and is trying to make the best of the situation. And this has earned her a large degree of sympathy and patience, in the eyes of your typical Brit.

But if her deal doesn’t get voted through tomorrow, and she doesn’t resign, then it can *ONLY* be apparent that she is putting her own interests ahead of the Nation.

And such a position will see the general Public sympathy she still enjoys, evaporate.

Corbyn & Co. have been getting flack recently for not making their position clearer with regards the Brexit shenanigans. I am quietly hopeful that this is just a strategy to keep to Media focus on Theresa and her Tories.

I can see a Motion of No Confidence (in the Government) passing, if Labour gets the timing right. That should then trigger a General Election (subject to the technicalities of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act).

It may be logistically and/or legally difficult to hold a General Election in the time remaining before March 29th. In which case, the EU will likely agree to an extension of that deadline. Particularly if Corbyn and the Labour Party indicate that a Second Referendum, or other plebiscite on the UK’s membership of the EU, will be held before, during or shortly after any G.E.

Shopping List:

May’s deal fails to be approved by Parliament tomorrow;

May announces her resignation immediately afterwards;

Corbyn announces Motion of No Confidence in current UK Government;

No Confidence Motion passes;

Labour wins General Election;

Labour proposes its own deal to the EU…

This is the bit where Corbyn could fuck it up…

*IF* there is to be a Brexit Deal and the UK is to leave the EU, it can only work one way:

The UK and EU identify all the elements of the Deal that they *DO* have full agreement on.

EU:UK v2.0 is then implemented immediately, managing all of the uncontentious, non-headline-grabbing technical stuff (that will allow businesses to mostly get on with business).

Meanwhile…

“Special”/”Transition” arrangements continue to be discussed for all of the problematic stuff (Irish borders; Customs Unions; Status of EU Nationals &c.). If necessary, an EU:UK v1.5 pipeline is brought online to handle all the “Special” stuff, until final agreements have been reached. Or, all activities pertinent to the unresolved stuff, just keeps flowing through EU:UK v1.0, until final agreements are reached on the specific topics.

But since this approach would pretty much fry the brains of the most ardent “Leave” *AND* “Remain” users… It ain’t gonna happen.

So Corbyn has to come up with a new deal, that is also never, ever going to be approved in total by all stakeholders…

…But which *CAN* be put to UK voters to approve or disapprove, in a plebiscite where “Cancel Brexit” will *ALSO* be an option.

If Corbyn & Co. don’t fuck that up, then the Second Referendum will be held, and Brexit will be cancelled. Corbyn and Labour will be heralded for steering the UK away from the Brexit “Cliff”.

And the Conservative Party will split in two, and never, ever again form a British Government.

It’ll all be worth it in the end..!

:-bd


Your imagination continues to be amusing, but alas I don't think this kind of political calculus will remotely come close to occurring.

Maybe you're just putting too much faith into Mr. Corbyn to do that.

_________________
Ill sell ya the rope with which you shall hang yourself.
Capitalism for the Win.

PCNC and PBF live in death!


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:04 am 
Offline
Lieutenant-Colonel
Lieutenant-Colonel
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:00 pm
Posts: 19213
Location: teh internet
Slacks wrote:
PBFMullethunter wrote:
Split conservative parties rarely last. 2 years later there will be a “unite the right” movement and newly branded official Cuntball party.


If the Tories split it would be possible they'd hook up with the UK Independence Party, who aren't fans of the EU or foreigners in general. Moderate Tories may form a centrist party with the Lib Dems and maybe even centrists from Labour. The third party would be Labour socialists.

Something for everyone!


These are exactly the conditions that led to Nazi Germany and the extermination of millions of Joos.


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:40 am 
Offline
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:42 am
Posts: 25443
PBFMullethunter wrote:
Slacks wrote:
PBFMullethunter wrote:
Split conservative parties rarely last. 2 years later there will be a “unite the right” movement and newly branded official Cuntball party.


If the Tories split it would be possible they'd hook up with the UK Independence Party, who aren't fans of the EU or foreigners in general. Moderate Tories may form a centrist party with the Lib Dems and maybe even centrists from Labour. The third party would be Labour socialists.

Something for everyone!


These are exactly the conditions that led to Nazi Germany and the extermination of millions of Joos.



Only around 2 million were in camps and most of them died of malnutrition the rest is falsified by Jews.

_________________
Empir immoto


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:20 am 
Offline
Major General
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 33178
Quote:
Pregnant MP Tulip Siddiq today revealed she will delay the birth of her child in order to vote against Theresa May’s Brexit deal.

The Labour MP for Hampstead & Kilburn has postponed the date of her caesarean section by two days and intends to be taken through the lobby in a wheelchair by her husband Chris.

Usually, heavily pregnant MPs, those with newborns and the sick are able to be “paired” with an opposition party member who also cannot vote so the overall result is not affected.

But after Conservative Party chairman Brandon Lewis broke a pairing arrangement with Liberal Democrat Deputy Leader Jo Swinson in July 2018, Ms Siddiq said she could no longer trust the system.


You know it's bad when a politician postpones her caesarean because she doesn't trust the governing party not to take advantage of her absence!

_________________
barcelona wrote:
Pics of Someguy naked wrapped in bacon........


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:22 pm 
Offline
Holyman
Holyman
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 16904
Location: Earth
SomeGuy wrote:
Your imagination continues to be amusing, but alas I don't think this kind of political calculus will remotely come close to occurring.


There were a lot of calculations in my post…

And I might be as surprised as anyone, if what I’ve laid out comes to pass, exactly as I’ve laid it out..!

But you “don’t think this kind of political calculus will come remotely close to occurring…”

Not even remotely..? C’mon… I may not be bang on the money (we’ll see…); but I reckon I’m a bit closer than remote..!

Also…

It’s not really calculus so much, as cause and effect.

SomeGuy wrote:
Maybe you're just putting too much faith into Mr. Corbyn to do that.


I’m not putting *ANY* faith in Mr. Corbyn.

He is a politician; and as such, is as compromised and corrupted by the System he works within, as any other politician.

And I’ve never met him.

What kind of moron would put their faith in someone they’ve never met..?

No… This isn’t about my faith in Jeremy Corbyn.

Best as I can see, this whole situation is Corbyn’s to lose.

The Conservative Party is already a Dead Party Walking.

This whole Brexit shambles is the direct consequence of Tory in-fighting.

That is: a group of no more than about 1,000 senior Conservative Party members and MPs, bickering and feuding about anachronistic notions like “Sovereignty”, and unable to unite their own Party (much less the Nation…), created this whole mess.

The Conservative Party has brought a great deal of shame down on the British. And the British are not going to forgive that any time soon.

It is *ABUNDANTLY* clear that a majority of British people now wish to remain in the E.U. And at the very least, the unavoidably obviousness of that demands a further Referendum.

If everything turns to shit post-Brexit (in whatever manner), and the majority UK population feels the Conservative Party should have (but didn’t) given them the opportunity for another Referendum…

…Theresa May (and more than a few other Tories) could well find themselves being beheaded in front of the Banqueting House. (It’s happened before…)

One way or another, the Conservative Party definitely loses the next General Election (whenever it is held), because the British are *NOT* in a mood to forgive this National Embarrassment.

Conservative Party voters hate whichever other Conservatives are on the opposite side of the Leave/Remain divide to themselves, more than they hate Labour Party voters/members/MPs. A “Remaining” Conservative is more likely to vote for a Labour Party offering a Second Referendum, than vote for a Conservative “Leaver”.

So…

If Theresa May were to win Parliament’s backing for her deal today… It would be a greater shock than the British voting for Brexit, or Americans voting for Trump… But a shock that completely reverses the Populist trends revealed by Brexit/Trump/”Yellow Vests” &c.

So we’ll assume – like everyone else – that Theresa May loses today’s vote.

It will then be very unlikely that Theresa May will not resign.

Not impossible that she won’t resign… Just very unlikely.

It would then be possible that Jeremy Corbyn & Co. do *NOT* table the Motion of No Confidence (in the Conservative Government), but very unlikely that they won’t.

How that No Confidence Motion then plays out in Parliament is where things start to get more unpredictable.

Even rebellious Tories – Rees-Mogg, BoJo, Raab &c – know that the Conservative Party gets creamed in the next election. So they may decide that self-preservation is more important than sticking to their principles; and rally around to defeat the No Confidence Motion…

…And then start jostling to be elected new Leader of the Conservative Party and new Prime Minister of the UK.

But with Brexit still uncertain/undecided/undefined… The British Premiership will be seen as a poisoned chalice… The race to become next leader of the Tory Party may be… A hesitant affair.

But if the Motion of No Confidence *DOES* pass… Then there is a General Election, and Jeremy Corbyn definitely becomes Prime Minister.

And here’s where he could fuck it up.

Corbyn *SHOULD* just say: “Fuck it. When I’m Prime Minister, I’m cancelling this Brexit.”

Not: “The UK will never, ever leave the EU.”

Just: “We are cancelling this specific attempt at Brexit.”

But he can’t say that… Yet.

Because the Labour Party is almost as badly split between “Remainers” and “Leavers”. And the last thing that Corbyn wants whilst the Tories are in disarray, is for the Labour Party to be seen in the same light.

Corbyn and senior Labour Party members aren’t at this stage primarily concerned with what happens (with/to the UK) regarding Brexit: their primary focus is on securing another General Election and getting into Government.

But if/when there is a Corbyn-led Labour Government…

He/they will have to come up with a “Deal” that:

Is sufficiently distinctive from the Tory Party’s proposed deal;

Is acceptable to the EU;

Will never, ever be implemented….

…Because the next step would then be to put the deal to the British Public to accept or reject, along with a third option to cancel Brexit.

And the cancellation of Brexit will win easily.

So that’s where Corbyn & Co. may fuck it up: if they get too bogged down with coming up with a deal that is acceptable to professional politicians in Westminster and Brussels… But will never, ever be implemented, because the British Public will/would cancel Brexit if asked.

Alternatively…

If there is a General Election in the next couple of months, it is conceivable that the plebiscite will include the question:

“Should there be a Second Brexit Referendum?”

If that question does get asked of the British Public during a snap General Election, then the Labour Party will become the Government. They won’t waste time coming up with any proposed deals: they will just hold that Second Referendum immediately, in the certain knowledge that the result will be “Remain”.

And then the UK can spend the next two years engaged in ruthless self-examination and self-criticism, over what a National Embarrassment the whole Brexit thing has become.

I couldn’t wish for a better outcome..!!

B-)

_________________
Image

"To be hopeful in bad times is not just foolishly romantic. It is based on the fact that human history is a history not only of cruelty, but also of compassion, sacrifice, courage, kindness. What we choose to emphasize in this complex history will determine our lives. If we see only the worst, it destroys our capacity to do something. If we remember those times and places—and there are so many—where people have behaved magnificently, this gives us the energy to act, and at least the possibility of sending this spinning top of a world in a different direction. And if we do act, in however small a way, we don’t have to wait for some grand utopian future. The future is an infinite succession of presents, and to live now as we think human beings should live, in defiance of all that is bad around us, is itself a marvellous victory." - Howard Zinn


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 1289 posts ]  Go to page Previous 127 28 29 30 3152 Next

All times are UTC+01:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited