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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:44 pm 
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Hey tG. You said a whole lot there, and I wouldn’t normally break things down quote-by-quote for you – that’s a special treat I try to reserve for a specific section of our Community.

But after I tried to address your pertinent points more broadly, and failed: I figured best to do the Q-by-/Q bit. So apologies in advance.

tgrant wrote:
People want homes. There are only so many.


So I’d say:

People *NEED* homes: why are there only so many?

tgrant wrote:
People have unique wants and they buy homes that fit these wants. Just like you and I both did.


I have never bought any residential property.

It’s the single-biggest confidence trick pulled on the largest number of people. It’s a game specifically rigged to keep people anchored to a particular form of Society (which isn’t working out very well for anyone anymore…).

But your key point is that there are a limited number of homes because people “have unique wants”.

I disagree: I would say just about the single most ubiquitous want in any human’s Life is to have a home.

But you mean they have desires for different types of homes.

I disagree with that, because it only applies to people who build their homes from scratch, rather than buying the nearest approximation to their “Dream Home” they can find and afford.

In my Experience, most people never buy the home they want: they buy the home they can try and make into the home they want… With all the attendant aggravation that requires.

tgrant wrote:
Are you proposing free housing for all?


No.

I’m proposing free housing for anyone who can’t afford to buy their own home.

tgrant wrote:
We have lots of free housing...but that doesn't solve the problem and the way most cities do it probably make things much worse.


Agreed.

And that’s mostly because of some faux-fear of “Moral Hazard”.

And also because: cities.

tgrant wrote:
I mean...sure...you could give them the keys to your house. The home won't raise them out of the bottom 20% because not having a home isn't what keeps them in the predicament of not having a home.


I wouldn’t be trying to raise them out the bottom quintile:

I’d be trying to give a homeless person a home.

Someone’s got to be in the bottom 20%.

And I have to say, I’m as familiar and friendly with people in the bottom 20% of London Society as I am with the top 20%. The only principle difference I could attest to generally, is that those in the bottom 20% don’t spend as much time judging those in the top 20%, as those in the highest quintile judge downwards.

If someone doesn’t want to spend their Life working, doing something they don’t want to do – have to be paid to do – why should they?

The assumption that those in the bottom 20% aren’t happy and content being in the bottom 20%, is mostly down to those in the top 20% trying to justify why they make Life so difficult for the bottom 20%.

Most of the B-20's I know: wouldn't trade the Freedom they have in their lives, for a high-paying, high-pressured, pay-all-your-bills-on-time Life, if it came with a large farmhouse in the Chilterns.

They'd just like to continue living the kind of simple, trouble-free Life they enjoyed as Children.

:-??

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:17 pm 
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I should add anecdotally:

I spent the first 15 years of my life living in what were called "council houses". First 12 years on a new-build estate; next 3 on an old-build estate.

Then I stopped living in a council house because Margaret Thatcher's Government instituted a policy that meant my father - a fireman, with alimony to pay for my two half-siblings - could buy the home for £19,000.

That was in 1986.

I actually moved out of that home in '92, so technically I was still living in the same place, but it was no no-longer "social housing".

I grew up in and amongst the "Bottom 20%" because my father, on his second marriage with three kids, and a fireman's income, couldn't afford to get on the property ladder. 13 years after he bought the place, in 1999, he sold it for £129,000.

Six years later, those he sold it to sold it on for £450,000.

And I believe its market-price today is somewhere around £500,000.

For a shitty, end-of-terrace, 3 bedroom, old-build council house with an outdoor (and an indoor) bathroom.

The issue with residential homes being traded as financial commodities does not just affect the bottom 20%.

And I'd further add:

You can take the Boy out of the Bottom 20%; but you can't take the Bottom 20% out of the Boy.

B-)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:01 pm 
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Further anecdotal evidence:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertain ... t-21493613

:-"

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:07 pm 
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Holyman wrote:
Hey tG. You said a whole lot there, and I wouldn’t normally break things down quote-by-quote for you – that’s a special treat I try to reserve for a specific section of our Community.


Honored! Back at ya...


Holyman wrote:
People *NEED* homes: why are there only so many?


Obvious. Space. Not enough where people want to live.



Holyman wrote:
I have never bought any residential property.


I know you haven't but you live in one. So when you decided to live in one you looked at all the considerations and picked one...and probably one of the big considerations was...wait for it....

Holyman wrote:


But your key point is that there are a limited number of homes because people “have unique wants”.

I disagree: I would say just about the single most ubiquitous want in any human’s Life is to have a home.

But you mean they have desires for different types of homes.

I disagree with that, because it only applies to people who build their homes from scratch, rather than buying the nearest approximation to their “Dream Home” they can find and afford.

In my Experience, most people never buy the home they want: they buy the home they can try and make into the home they want… With all the attendant aggravation that requires.



No.

What are the three biggest drivers for realestate Holyman? You know this...Location ... Location ... Location. ...and then maybe sqft.

Where are you going to put these free homes? Spread them in the community? ...good luck with that. Put them all together? good luck with that. Both have challenges that are too numerous to write up...but people far smarter than you or I have been giving their lives up trying to solve them...and it's really really hard. It's not as simple as "homes are a financial commodity". It's a fucking really hard problem to solve (I put the "fucking" in because Mullet said it makes me sound smart when I swear...or that I think it makes me sounds smart...probably the latter...fuck you Mullet).


Holyman wrote:
I’m proposing free housing for anyone who can’t afford to buy their own home.


Again...Where are you going to put them? How big are they? Are they all the same? Luck of the draw who gets the beach front free home? Does everyone get a certain amount of subsidized sqft? First 1000 sqft free? What about maintenance? Any trip into a subsidized housing complex and you see people there are not doing a good job of maintaining their community...even when the homes are free.

Holyman wrote:
They'd just like to continue living the kind of simple, trouble-free Life they enjoyed as Children.

:-??



...and that's the problem. I don't want perpetual children. My goal is to turn children into competent adults. If we can't do that everything crumbles. Sad reality is some people can't, for reasons outside their control, become competent adults. We want to help them....like Barca taking care of his brother, it's noble to do that. Those adults who chose to not grow up... That's fine to. ...they don't need my help. ...If we subsidize peoples perpetual childhood who would want to grow up?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:20 pm 
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San Francisco, Vancouver, Los Angeles and San Diego are some of the most expensive places in the world to live because it is beautiful and has nice weather. They are also run by very Liberal politicians who put up alot of zoning and environmental restrictions making building new housing very difficult and expensive.

Not everyone is entitled to live in a house or a rental in the most desirable and expensive places on the planet. So some people might consider moving back east where the cost of living is much cheaper to get off the streets.

If these 4 cities reduced the regulations for new housing and stopped their foolishly permissive drug policies - it would put a massive dent in the homeless camps very quickly.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:43 pm 
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We should get together, identify an island and ship all the homeless to it. It'll be the new Australia, but for druggies and mentally unwell. The strongest will thrive and make a success of the place. Job done.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:05 pm 
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tgrant wrote:
Holyman wrote:
I’m proposing free housing for anyone who can’t afford to buy their own home.


Again...Where are you going to put them? How big are they? Are they all the same? Luck of the draw who gets the beach front free home? Does everyone get a certain amount of subsidized sqft? First 1000 sqft free? What about maintenance? Any trip into a subsidized housing complex and you see people there are not doing a good job of maintaining their community...even when the homes are free.


Because they are there under sufferance.

Those "homes" are not given to them as a mark of care and consideration by an Enlightened and Evolved Society; they are poorly maintained shit-holes where Society parks those it resents for not towing the line everyone else is mug enough to do.

But fundamentally, what you are asking is:

Who will pay for it all.

But I'm allowing that you probably know you don't want to be asking *ME* that question. ;)

tgrant wrote:
Holyman wrote:
They'd just like to continue living the kind of simple, trouble-free Life they enjoyed as Children.


...and that's the problem. I don't want perpetual children. My goal is to turn children into competent adults. If we can't do that everything crumbles. Sad reality is some people can't, for reasons outside their control, become competent adults. We want to help them....like Barca taking care of his brother, it's noble to do that. Those adults who chose to not grow up... That's fine to. ...they don't need my help. ...If we subsidize peoples perpetual childhood who would want to grow up?


Can I presume to assert that the reason your goal is to turn children into competent adults, is because the Adult World requires a great deal of competency in which to thrive and survive.

None of the lower three quintiles are much fun these days. If you're living a "comfortable" existence, then you're in the 80-100% bracket, for now. And Life deteriorates quite rapidly as you go down the metrics from there.

So as Responsible Parents we must think, "Fuck! Got to make sure my kids don't end up on the streets, or worse..!".

Because...

All the so-called "competent adults" that are going before those incompetent children, have created and maintained a Dog-Eat-Dog Society.

Of which they are inexplicably proud, and understandably keen to ensure that their own dogs don't get eaten when it's Time to fend for themselves.

Facts of the matter are that we possess more than adequate technical understanding to ensure that every human being alive on this Planet can live a comfortable Existence.

But politics, morality and our forced addiction to money prevents that happening.

Forcing our kids to grow rapidly into "adults" that can join a Rat-Race that is observably not producing Good Outcomes, seems both foolish and cruel.

We as adults are starting to wake-up to the nightmare of our addiction to money.

We should wake up to the fact that trying to integrate our Children into Capitalism, as our first and foremost priority as Parents, is not something they are going to put up with any more.

:-??

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:20 am 
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Holyman wrote:
Because they are there under sufferance.

Those "homes" are not given to them as a mark of care and consideration by an Enlightened and Evolved Society; they are poorly maintained shit-holes where Society parks those it resents for not towing the line everyone else is mug enough to do.

But fundamentally, what you are asking is:

Who will pay for it all.

But I'm allowing that you probably know you don't want to be asking *ME* that question. ;)


Not what I was asking or caring about. You pay for your homeless problem one way or another. I was coming from the angle of giving people a house has been tried. It alone doesn't work. If you move the bottom 20% into the communities it causes problems. If you put them in one place it causes problems. I don't see just giving people a home as solving the problem at all. We've been trying it. Doesn't work. Even if you give them the land and the home and they own it outright because you're enlightened and love all your fellow man... They don't have the ability to maintain it. Do you send them to home maintenance school? For most the home will be in a state of disrepair in a matter of a decade...if you're lucky.

Holyman wrote:

Can I presume to assert that the reason your goal is to turn children into competent adults, is because the Adult World requires a great deal of competency in which to thrive and survive.


Partly. But mainly because being a parent requires competence. How are they going to raise the generation that comes after them if they are incompetent? I also want them to improve things. Our parents made the world a much much better place than they inherited from their parents. We have continued along those lines. Our kids need to do the same after we are gone for their children. If they aren't competent. They are fucked. So are their children. Not us.

Holyman wrote:
None of the lower three quintiles are much fun these days. If you're living a "comfortable" existence, then you're in the 80-100% bracket, for now. And Life deteriorates quite rapidly as you go down the metrics from there.


I don't know what metrics you use to define comfort. But these days the internet is being considered an essential service. When we were kids it was heating in the winter and running water. Even most of the bottom 20% are walking around with cell phones.

Holyman wrote:
So as Responsible Parents we must think, "Fuck! Got to make sure my kids don't end up on the streets, or worse..!".

Because...

All the so-called "competent adults" that are going before those incompetent children, have created and maintained a Dog-Eat-Dog Society.

Of which they are inexplicably proud, and understandably keen to ensure that their own dogs don't get eaten when it's Time to fend for themselves.

Facts of the matter are that we possess more than adequate technical understanding to ensure that every human being alive on this Planet can live a comfortable Existence.



Who will maintain this technology after we're gone if you don't create competent adults? Will they even care to maintain it?

Holyman wrote:

But politics, morality and our forced addiction to money prevents that happening.

Forcing our kids to grow rapidly into "adults" that can join a Rat-Race that is observably not producing Good Outcomes, seems both foolish and cruel.



I think it's foolish and cruel not too. If kids want to have a family they need to be having kids in their early thirties. Much later than that and they risk dying before they raise their children and the risk of genetic disorders drastically increases. That means in their mid twenties they need to be pairing up. Biology forces the timelines. Not my desire to prematurely force my kids into a rat race. They want a family? Those are the timelines they have to work with. Having a family is probably the most rewarding thing I've done...and I hope my kids have the opportunity to enjoy it as well. Incompetent parents don't do a good job and their children suffer.

Holyman wrote:

We as adults are starting to wake-up to the nightmare of our addiction to money.

We should wake up to the fact that trying to integrate our Children into Capitalism, as our first and foremost priority as Parents, is not something they are going to put up with any more.

:-??


I don't know what you're on about here. But the society of the future is going to need doctors, teachers, nurses, chemist, biologist, programmers, architects, engineers. It doesn't need perpetual children. I'm encouraging my children to follow their passions. Find something they enjoy and find a way to help as many people as they can doing it. Because they can make a good living and have a good life doing that. If you call that capitalism than...yes. That is one of my priorities as a parent.

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Change is the Law of The Universe

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:14 pm 
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The bullshit housing market isn’t just bad for people who don’t have anything.

This is the latest “crisis” unfolding now, insurance companies jacking up rates yugely and condo owners on the hook for “maintenance” fees they can’t afford.

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/real ... bc-2095427

The whole condo market is a giant fucking shitshow. Apartment buildings aren’t even made anymore, everything is “condo.” These things are actually a terrible long term investment, as after a few decades everything starts to fall apart, crumble and leak, and repairs cost millions rather than the thousands you would need if you had a detached or semi-detached home instead.

Fuck all that shit. I’d sooner live in a trailer park.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:41 pm 
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Yeah...I lived in a condo for about three years. Underground parking garage needed to be fixed ... cost a fortune. Biggest expenses are when elevators go. If you want you kids to be stinking rich tell them to look into elevator repair. No shit...total tack of elevator repairmen. As a result they make a killing.

I don't get why the jacked prices in BC for condo buildings...not happening here. weird.

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What belongs to you today
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Change is the Law of The Universe

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:13 am 
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PBFMullethunter wrote:
My solution, which I only just came up with a few seconds ago, is this:

Place each bum in a safe, warm little house in a small community which actually has a very easy “job” attached to it, for instance said bum will be required to manage energy collection from solar panels, or roll doobies for a weed store or something. My feeling is that there are many menial tasks out there that could be handled by bums if the workday was short and they could easily accomplish everything they needed to in an hour or two per day. Then they could spend the rest of the day just doing nothing.

Why should every job need to be super demanding and soul-sucking? It’s too much for many people.

What he said...

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:53 am 
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Holyman wrote:
PBFMullethunter wrote:
Move to the city and end up meeting many, and they’re still sex crazed...


Yup.

That's the reason I moved to London as soon as I was allowed.

<Q\M>

Aren’t most of us sex crazed? ... :-??

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:34 pm 
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If we weren't, the Place would sure be a lot quieter.

And cleaner.

:-??

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:18 pm 
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FEBRUARY 19, 2020

Which Side Are You On?

by CHRIS FLOYD


My best friend from high school was in and out of the prison system the last two decades of his life. He was a drug addict. This was before the opioid epidemic; his poison was crack cocaine. His father had been a raging, violent alcoholic and his mother was a broken woman with chronic illnesses. My friend spent most of his adult life trying to take care of her.

His addiction put him in dire need of cash all the time, even as it made it impossible for him to hold a steady job. It drove him to do stupid things. He once stole my car and sold my son’s schoolbooks, which were in the back seat, to get some cash. He would bang on my door late at night, asking for some money to keep the dealers he owed from giving him a beat-down. He finally ended up stealing items from his mother’s house and pawning them. He went to jail for that, then for the next several years kept going back to jail for various probation violations: often for getting caught drinking in public somewhere.

He eventually did a 13-month stretch in state prison, where he danced a fine line between the violent, racially polarized gangs that the prison authorities allowed to run amok. He refused to join the white racists but was regarded warily by the black gangs. He got beatings from people on both sides but was also able, sometimes, to act as a peacemaker between them.

When he got out of the pen, his life continued largely as before. He tried to set himself up as an independent contractor, doing house repairs, roofing, carpet laying, yard work. His mother died. He had long lost custody of his only son. He still struggled with crack, but dulled his psychic pain mostly with alcohol. He died at some point in his fifties, found in his cheap apartment two or three days after his death, corpse bloated in the sweltering heat of a Tennessee summer.

That’s it. That was his life. That’s all he had. He was a dope addict. He was a convicted criminal. He was a repeat offender. He was a desperate liar and a thief. He was a lost soul of no use to the society he lived in and then he died. That’s it.

He was also — without exaggeration or nostalgic sentimentality — the kindest, most sweet-natured, open and gentle person you could ever meet. He loved music with a passion so deep it touched the core of the earth. His failings tormented him like hot coals. He couldn’t understand what had happened to him, why he couldn’t escape addiction, why his mind was so muddled, why it wouldn’t stop roaring long enough for him to ever gather himself and be real, be whole, be normal.

He was beaten and threatened all through his boyhood. Even in high school he was a nervous wreck. He used to sneak down to our house in the middle of the night after a row with his father and try to sleep in the hedgerow of our yard, or else on our back porch. Fortunately, the dogs would always alert us, and we’d find him and bring him in, make a bed for him on the couch. He loved my family with a searing love that never abated for the 50 years he knew us.

I think of my friend whenever I hear some bullshit-bloated politician or commentator dismissing the humanity and dignity of criminals and prisoners. I thought of my friend today, when I read a story about Jonathan Faircloth, a 33-year-old prisoner in Alabama dying of colon and liver cancer that’s being left untreated by the authorities. He too was back in prison for probation violations — another drug addict who, while trying to make a normal life for his wife and children, got slam-banged by his addiction again.

I thought of my friend when I read the reply of Etowah County Sheriff Jonathon Horton after the Alabama media asked him about this human being left to die without treatment:

“He’s using his sickness as an excuse to get out of jail over and over again. In layman’s terms, he just ran out of his chances. So the judge revoked [his probation] and says he has to serve his days,” Horton said.

He is using his sickness — his Stage 4 colon cancer which has now spread to his liver and will kill him by next year if not before — as an “excuse.” An excuse. Stage 4 cancer as an excuse.

I read these words, and I think of the countless sons of bitches across the country — the dimwitted bulls in their stupid, prissy knit uniforms like this Etowah goober, the tee-shirted assholes pounding out inhumane bullshit on Twitter, the sleek politicians in designer suits, and the millions and millions of people committing spiritual suicide by attending to the brutal, barbaric blather of these walking, rotting husks.

I think of them, and I think of my friend — a parole-violating drug-addicted repeat-offending criminal of no use to the society he lived in — and I know — by God, I know! — which side I’m on.

Chris Floyd's blog, Empire Burlesque, can be found at www.chris-floyd.com. His twitter feed is @empireburlesque. His Instagram is www.instagram.com/cfloydtn/.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:23 pm 
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tgrant wrote:
You pay for your homeless problem one way or another.


Mm-hmm.

tgrant wrote:
I was coming from the angle of giving people a house has been tried. It alone doesn't work. If you move the bottom 20% into the communities it causes problems. If you put them in one place it causes problems. I don't see just giving people a home as solving the problem at all. We've been trying it. Doesn't work. Even if you give them the land and the home and they own it outright because you're enlightened and love all your fellow man... They don't have the ability to maintain it. Do you send them to home maintenance school? For most the home will be in a state of disrepair in a matter of a decade...if you're lucky.


OK.

Howabout for the purposes of this discussion, we change the term “home” to “shelter”?

If someone wants a “home”, that’s something that takes Time to create.

You can get hold of a building, of one form or another, using whatever means are at your disposal. But then it takes a little while to turn that into an actual “home”.

(You get my drift there tG?)

I don’t think people should or *CAN* be given “homes”. Wherever you lay your hat, right?

But I do think that a responsible and civilised Society ought, at a minimum, to provide residential shelter to those who are unable to secure it themselves.

What would be the nature of those shelters? Their locations?

Well, in my mind, I’m thinking of the kind of buildings that Norway uses to house its criminal offenders.

Fairly straightforward, fairly Spartan units, in blocks.

Not the kind of place most of us would ever imagine making a home out of, but certainly somewhere to shelter and to use as an address for job applications and the such.

And where..?

Well, you know how I feel about Centralisation…

I’d give the smallest and most local governmental entity (e.g. a Parish Council, County Council &c.) whatever funding was required to provide and maintain these shelters, in whatever way they deem appropriate to their local Community and Culture.

They could stick all their shelters in one underground and out-of-sight compound; or individual condos on the beach-front… Whatever *THEY* deem appropriate.

The principles would be that nobody should live without a private shelter; and anyone who goes out of their way to stigmatise those who can’t afford their own shelters, should probably check the financial and social foundations of their “own” shelters/homes.

tgrant wrote:
Our parents made the world a much much better place than they inherited from their parents. We have continued along those lines.


The World that our Children are inheriting tG, is *MUCH*, much worse than that enjoyed by our parents and us.

There is basically only a single Global Nation now, called “Capitalism”. And National Law is that all Children must be forced into Capitalist-Shapes, so that they can continue to progress Capitalism.

Even as virtually *ALL* of our Children know better than their Parents: Capitalism is destroying our World.

Not just Environmentally, but Socially.

We even load our Best and Brightest Children up with a mountain of financial debt, so that when they leave College, they know that they’re First and Foremost Duty to Capitalism, is to Repay Their Debts.

Meanwhile, naked criminality at the highest echelons of Capitalism (the level above “Government”) continues to promote Debt as the answer to all of the World’s Problems.

In my Experience tG: none but the most neuroticised (by their parents) kids are buying any of that bullshit anymore.

tgrant wrote:
Our kids need to do the same after we are gone for their children. If they aren't competent. They are fucked. So are their children. Not us.


I think the issue is that individual competencies have displace Collective Competency.

Some of us as individuals may be relatively competent at surviving the rigours of our World; but I’m not seeing any evidence of Collective Competency.

In fact – and again, from my own Experience – I’d say Collective Competency declines in inverse proportion to the number of Individual “Competents” involved.

We were taught by our Parents to “Stand on our own two feet!”; but our Kids are quickly understanding that if they don’t figure out how to Stand Together: every One of them is fucked.

The past emphases on Individual Achievement and Capability have created a brutal World, in which our major goal as parents is to equip our Children with what *WE* feel *THEY* need to survive this nasty World we brought them into.

tgrant wrote:
Who will maintain this technology after we're gone if you don't create competent adults? Will they even care to maintain it?


Technology will maintain technology.

Automated Intelligence, Process Automation, Robotics… There’s a whole bunch of Technology out there, already making Human Work redundant.

And wasn’t that always the point of the Industrial and Digital Revolutions? To give us *ALL* much more Leisure Time?

But because Capitalism…

We have obscenely wealthy individuals, who do nothing like what any of us would call “work”, sitting atop piles of wealth that neither they nor the next three generations of their family could possibly spend in all their Lifetimes…

…Whilst the Rest of Us live Hand-to-Mouth Existences, because that is all we have been Conditioned to Know.

tgrant wrote:
If kids want to have a family they need to be having kids in their early thirties. Much later than that and they risk dying before they raise their children and the risk of genetic disorders drastically increases.


I’ll let Holyboy 3.0 know.

I was 43 and HW was 44 when he was born.

tgrant wrote:
Holyman wrote:
We as adults are starting to wake-up to the nightmare of our addiction to money.

We should wake up to the fact that trying to integrate our Children into Capitalism, as our first and foremost priority as Parents, is not something they are going to put up with any more.


I don't know what you're on about here.


Our Children are rejecting the notion that they Exist purely to make/acquire/accumulate money.

tgrant wrote:
But the society of the future is going to need doctors, teachers, nurses, chemist, biologist, programmers, architects, engineers. It doesn't need perpetual children.


I don’t think I could disagree any more fundamentally.

Most of the problems I see currently in Society, are caused by the ridiculous notion that *EVERYONE MUST WORK*.

Look at the State of the Place!

Billions of Humans rushing around doing shit they don’t want to do, but are compelled to do, for fear of the Poor-House (or worse).

Why aren’t Humans given the *CHOICE* whether to work or not?

tgrant wrote:
I'm encouraging my children to follow their passions. Find something they enjoy and find a way to help as many people as they can doing it. Because they can make a good living and have a good life doing that. If you call that capitalism than...yes. That is one of my priorities as a parent.


I absolutely do *NOT* call that “Capitalism” – not by a long stretch. My approach to parenting is identical – and I know *I’M* not a Capitalist!

The only bit that tilts that way is “make a good living”.

I don’t include that in my Parenting.

I say:

Do whatever you enjoy doing, especially if that includes helping as many others to help make Our World a nicer, more gentle place.

But don’t worry about ‘making a good living’, because that is impossible for you.

:-bd

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:07 pm 
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Holyman wrote:

I don’t think I could disagree any more fundamentally.

Most of the problems I see currently in Society, are caused by the ridiculous notion that *EVERYONE MUST WORK*.

Look at the State of the Place!

:-bd


I don't think the world needs more lazy middle class intellectuals with nothing to do but sit around and coming up with schemes to fuck up the planet.

We are still getting over the terrible trauma that Marx and Engels inflicted upon humanity.

Get to work!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:13 pm 
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Holyman wrote:
FEBRUARY 19, 2020

Which Side Are You On?

by CHRIS FLOYD


I think of them, and I think of my friend — a parole-violating drug-addicted repeat-offending criminal of no use to the society he lived in — and I know — by God, I know! — which side I’m on.

Chris Floyd's blog, Empire Burlesque, can be found at http://www.chris-floyd.com. His twitter feed is @empireburlesque. His Instagram is http://www.instagram.com/cfloydtn/.


Don't do crack. Not even once.

You run out of options once you become a hopeless addict hurting and stealing from your friends/family and spending time in prison.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:56 am 
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So you went from this:

Holyman wrote:
Those "homes" are not given to them as a mark of care and consideration by an Enlightened and Evolved Society


To this:
Holyman wrote:
Well, in my mind, I’m thinking of the kind of buildings that Norway uses to house its criminal offenders.
Fairly straightforward, fairly Spartan units, in blocks.


So … that’s a big jump from giving homeless homes to putting them in prisons. :D
I get what you’re saying though, something simple so they’re not on the street. My point, that I’ve been trying to make, is that if you take a lot of people who are struggling to take care of themselves (for lots of reasons …many of which outside their control) and you put them all together…why on earth would you think they are going to band together and take care of that place? History proves this won’t happen…There’s a reason why these housing complexes go to shit. In my opinion it’s a very deep dark conversation totally unrelated to whether they have a house or not.

One of the other things that this particular prison has which shelters don’t…is a massive amount of people they are throwing at the problem. Not only guards but also support workers and the like. Surely as automation takes hold and more jobs are removed we can put people to work on rehabbing our homeless….and maybe that will help. Certainly better to put people to work on helping people in need than having them opt out of society and remain perpetual children.

Holyman wrote:
The World that our Children are inheriting tG, is *MUCH*, much worse than that enjoyed by our parents and us.


I think this is where our fundamental disagreement is. It is not much worse. It is your opinion that it is worse. Global poverty. Global hunger. Average life expectancy. Happiness. Environmental Awareness. Literacy …pick a metric. We’re doing better and better. Perfect no. Much much worse? Ridiculous.

Holyman wrote:
We were taught by our Parents to “Stand on our own two feet!”; but our Kids are quickly understanding that if they don’t figure out how to Stand Together: every One of them is fucked.


So if a bunch of kids get together and they can’t even balance their cheque books or cook their own food they will balance municipal budgets and feed the homeless. If you can’t take care of yourself you’re not equipped to manage society.

Holyman wrote:
Technology will maintain technology.

Automated Intelligence, Process Automation, Robotics… There’s a whole bunch of Technology out there, already making Human Work redundant.


We aren’t there yet. Not even close. Have you seen the latest version of Asimo? Long time before he’s getting under your sink and fixing your pipe. Long time before you want him holding your hand before you go into a surgery. We need people for a long time doing people things. You’ll be calling the plumber for the rest of your life. Not roborooter.

Holyman wrote:
But because Capitalism…

We have obscenely wealthy individuals, who do nothing like what any of us would call “work”, sitting atop piles of wealth that neither they nor the next three generations of their family could possibly spend in all their Lifetimes…

…Whilst the Rest of Us live Hand-to-Mouth Existences, because that is all we have been Conditioned to Know.


I would not trade places with Elon Musk. Guy is creating jobs left and right and revolutionizing several industries. …but works like 80 hours a week…fuck that. How about Bill Gates and the giving pledge. Horrible people. Giving away most of their wealth. I know you’re surrounded by evil bankers but man…these capitalists monsters don’t seem to be that horrible.

Holyman wrote:
x
I’ll let Holyboy 3.0 know.
I was 43 and HW was 44 when he was born.


So let’s do some very simple math. Average life expectancy in GB is … 80 years. So if Holyboy 3.0 waits until he’s the age you were to have kids…you’ll be 86…or dead. Odds of having a child with birth defects goes to 1 in 38 if you have kids in your mid 40’s. Half the people that try can’t due to infertility. How well would society function if 1 in 38 people suffered from birth defects….versus 1 in 1500 if you’re under 30. Biology. Simple as that. Humans make better babies when parents are young. Glad things worked out for you but I don’t think society will function well if 1 in 38 people are struggling with birth defects and the rest are perpetual children. No thanks. Growing up quicker is better. I’m still pushing the goal of raising competent adults. Your plan sucks.

Holyman wrote:

Most of the problems I see currently in Society, are caused by the ridiculous notion that *EVERYONE MUST WORK*.

Look at the State of the Place!

Billions of Humans rushing around doing shit they don’t want to do, but are compelled to do, for fear of the Poor-House (or worse).

Why aren’t Humans given the *CHOICE* whether to work or not?


You read those jobs I put up? Most jobs are trending towards service. Helping people. That’s pretty noble work. Helping your fellow citizens. Those won’t go anywhere. People want to be helped by people. Billions of people rushing around doing work that helps people. What horror. You want a human nurse or a robot to hold your child’s hand when they’re going in for surgery? You want to talk to a real person or an AI when your home has burnt down and you don’t know what to do? We like to chat with the bartender at the pub. We like having people teach our children. Stop being such a doom monger. Given the fact that you and I have the time to argue over such a pointless topic half a world away from each other means things ain’t that bad. My kids are excited as all fuck about their future. One wants to be either an architect or a youtuber and the other an engineer that designs cars for Tesla. Cool.

Holyman wrote:

The only bit that tilts that way is “make a good living”.

I don’t include that in my Parenting.

I say:

Do whatever you enjoy doing, especially if that includes helping as many others to help make Our World a nicer, more gentle place.

But don’t worry about ‘making a good living’, because that is impossible for you.

:-bd


Your kids will surprise you, I reckon, given their upbringing, they will do the “impossible” with ease.

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What you have taken, Has been from here
What you gave has been given here
What belongs to you today
belonged to someone yesterday
and will be someone else’s tomorrow

Change is the Law of The Universe

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“A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving.” – Lao Tzu


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