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 Post subject: Re: Not me. Us.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:02 pm 
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SomeGuy wrote:
MIDNIGHT wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
So Midnight is committing to the failed policies of the past, the authoritarian and racist policies and tendencies of the Left, and to one of the loonier candidates out there?

III/O


Please look at that list from my photo and tell me who from that clown show You think is better.


Andrew Yang though rumor has it his campaign is done soon. Otherwise, the Write-In. A random name in the phone book would've done.

I choose Andrew Yang because while he doesn't understand Universal Guaranteed Income, he's not the tyrannical gun control, speech control, nanny state, abortion from conception to birth including infanticide type unlike all the others minus Bloomberg who's just trying to buy the election. He's just a single issue wonk and a single issue wonk who actually stands for what they believe is infinitely better than the rest of this clown show insane asylum.

But the random name out of the phone book sounds like a better idea.

MIDNIGHT wrote:
At least Bernice It's more sincere than the rest of them, I don't think he's doing it for personal power I think he's doing it out of a conviction.


I'm not convinced of that anymore. He's kinda just riding the momentum of the leftward lurch of the DNC and becoming ever more dysfunctional and insincere in the process.

He hasn't really set himself out as his own man this time around. He did in 2016 but not now.

MIDNIGHT wrote:
also I'd like to see the matchup between Bernie and Trump that should have happened in 2016 before Hillary stole the nomination.


Is this a poison the well moment? Put him on the ticket so Democrats can lose bigly in the general? Because he's gonna get his face kicked in if he tries to repeat 2016. Especially with that big monkey on his back called the impeachment fiasco that he voted for.

MIDNIGHT wrote:
Also like Trump, Bernie is an outsider and not really a Democrat.


Not anymore. His voting record in the Senate over the past 3 years and change is almost 100% AOC-Democrat type.



Andrew Yang dropped out last night..... I would have totally wasted my vote if I listen to you >>::$

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 Post subject: Re: Not me. Us.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:05 pm 
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Holyman wrote:
Funny thing is...



And for good reason. Look at the Republican Party now. It has been turned into the Trump Party.
[-O<



Trump party is a pretty catchy name.

However..,.

What do you think if we rename it The Social Nationalist party.... :-?

:D

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 Post subject: Re: Not me. Us.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:06 pm 
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MIDNIGHT wrote:
Andrew Yang dropped out last night..... I would have totally wasted my vote if I listen to you >>::$


In California your vote doesn't matter anyways. Jungle primary systems always have zero diversity of candidates. It's all gonna be insane Democrats on the ballot whatever you put.

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 Post subject: Re: Not me. Us.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:08 pm 
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SomeGuy wrote:
MIDNIGHT wrote:
Andrew Yang dropped out last night..... I would have totally wasted my vote if I listen to you >>::$


In California your vote doesn't matter anyways. Jungle primary systems always have zero diversity of candidates. It's all gonna be insane Democrats on the ballot whatever you put.


Yep - but I fully intend to vote for Trump this year just to run up the total vote count.

Even though Trump was basically unopposed in New Hampshire yesterday, he broke all modern records for recent incumbents. If people are that enthusiastic to vote in the middle of winter for a shoe-in, I wonder what this November will look like?

- Trump got 110,710 votes yesterday
- Barack Obama - 49,080 votes in 2012
- George W. Bush - 52,962 votes in 2004.
- Bill Clinton - 76,797 in 1996.
- Bush Sr. - 92,271 votes in 1991


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 Post subject: Re: Not me. Us.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:53 pm 
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Foota wrote:
I fully intend


This is a phrase that annoys me. I mean, have you ever heard anyone say "partially intend" or "mostly intend"? It's superfluous.

Gtfo

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 Post subject: Re: Not me. Us.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:30 pm 
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MIDNIGHT wrote:
I say we let Deanna settle this entire circumcision controversy once and for all!

To be honest Midnight... I have never personally seen an uncircumcised penis, other than someone trying to get me to look at a picture, no, it wasn’t Barcy’s penis either, before you ask... =))

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 Post subject: Re: Not me. Us.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:18 am 
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DEANNA79 wrote:
MIDNIGHT wrote:
I say we let Deanna settle this entire circumcision controversy once and for all!

To be honest Midnight... I have never personally seen an uncircumcised penis, other than someone trying to get me to look at a picture, no, it wasn’t Barcy’s penis either, before you ask... =))



A lack of experience doesn't mean you don't have a preference.
:-?

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 Post subject: Re: Not me. Us.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:14 am 
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Good vote! Bernie is the only one who will crush Trump, is my choice as well. He has the people’s momentum, as well as a very large loyal, vocal base that rivals Trumps. Among all the current trailing front runners, Bernie enjoys the widest demographic backing among white, black, and Latino voters, with the excitement necessary to engage new and young voters. Would have happened in 2016 if not for some of the most corrupt, disgusting behind the scenes deals by the DNC to favor a deeply unpopular Hillary, which was all a move to keep corporate money influence in our politics.

His campaigns main pillars, single payer healthcare, free college tuition for public colleges, properly taxing the richest, and support for green new deal, enjoy majority popular support. Personally, the fact that my healthcare plan is tied to my job, if I’m lucky enough for my employer to offer it, is bizarrely dumb. It is Increasingly obvious how bad this cruel profit driven system is for the average American, with virtually no safety nets for someone who has lost their job, which is why Bernie’s efforts makes pragmatic sense with the best outcome for all.

It is absolutely hilarious to watch on air wealthy network political commentators, as well as main news website coverages bend over absolutely backwards to avoid saying anything positive about Bernie, or acknowledge his lead and popular support. It is almost a race to see who can trickle the least bit of coverage and prop up ANYONE else, they are trying to pull the same dirty tricks, but I don’t think it will work in 2020 though. I really believe Trump’s dangerous ridiculousness has put a white hot spotlight the country’s serious democratic deficiencies and systemic corruption in both parties. Who gets their news from these corporate suckling dishonest bastards anyway these days? Christ this county is in a state...


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 Post subject: Re: Not me. Us.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:49 am 
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You see...This is why Bernie is so popular...

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 Post subject: Re: Not me. Us.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:08 am 
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Slacks wrote:
have you ever heard anyone say "partially intend" or "mostly intend"?


Yes.

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 Post subject: Re: Not me. Us.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:14 am 
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DEANNA79 wrote:
To be honest Midnight... I have never personally seen an uncircumcised penis


check your pm’s


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 Post subject: Re: Not me. Us.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:21 am 
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PBFMullethunter wrote:
DEANNA79 wrote:
To be honest Midnight... I have never personally seen an uncircumcised penis


check your pm’s

No! =))

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 Post subject: Re: Not me. Us.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:22 am 
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vectorline wrote:
His campaigns main pillars, single payer healthcare


Would be unworkable. He has no details about how he'd actually make it work if he was even to set out doing such a thing.

It's been a constant campaign promise for decades from Democrats and they've had ample opportunities over that time to do it. So why didn't they? Is it that it doesn't work? Or is it that they need people perpetually kept down and hooked to the promise of "someday we'll have single payer healthcare! Vote for me!"?

vectorline wrote:
free college tuition for public colleges


I went to a public college, got two degrees out of it. Is Bernie gonna give me my 23,000ish dollars back? I paid off my student loans in full like a responsible person and I did so years early. (Last October to be precise.) What is he going to do for people like me? Am I just gonna get the shaft while lazy whiners get everything?

vectorline wrote:
properly taxing the richest


How? More of the same antiquated draconian measures proposed over the decades?

vectorline wrote:
support for green new deal


Aka the biggest load of BS since Kyoto.

vectorline wrote:
enjoy majority popular support


Do they really?

vectorline wrote:
Personally, the fact that my healthcare plan is tied to my job, if I’m lucky enough for my employer to offer it, is bizarrely dumb.


Welcome to Obamacare. Workplace health insurance used to be a benefit, not a requirement and places that did offer it did so for reasons other than the law forced them to. As a result it's been driven into a cheap tack-on package instead of something companies and workers came together to hash out.

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 Post subject: Re: Not me. Us.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:02 am 
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vectorline wrote:
Personally, the fact that my healthcare plan is tied to my job, if I’m lucky enough for my employer to offer it, is bizarrely dumb.


It is dumb... especially considering the “job” model applies to fewer people as more and more end up doing multiple gigs, freelance work etc.

The problem really is that Americans are brainwashed on this issue, as with gun rights.


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 Post subject: Re: Not me. Us.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:53 am 
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SomeGuy wrote:
vectorline wrote:
His campaigns main pillars, single payer healthcare


Would be unworkable. He has no details about how he'd actually make it work if he was even to set out doing such a thing.


He doesn't need details.

He just says:

"We'll do it like *EVERY* other national society on the Planet does it."

It's fully-costed because it's only a change in insurance arrangements.

A "Single-Payer", not-for-profit fund.

Don't even need to ban the multiple, for-profit funds some Americans are lucky enough to have their Health dependent upon.

The far-lower premiums, total absence of deductibles, and zero-administration at the point-of-delivery of the Single-Payer Scheme will let Market Forces ensure only the "fittest" for-profit medical insurance schemes endure.

And you know the really neat thing?

The United States already has a Single-Payer Medical Insurance fund: Medicare.

But you're only allowed to use that if you are old, disabled or your kidneys are fucked.

All Bernie (or anyone) has to do is remove the prohibition on all other Americans switching to the Medicare Insurance Scheme.

8).))

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 Post subject: Re: Not me. Us.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:54 am 
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vectorline wrote:
Good vote! Bernie is the only one who will crush Trump, is my choice as well. He has the people’s momentum, as well as a very large loyal, vocal base that rivals Trumps. Among all the current trailing front runners, Bernie enjoys the widest demographic backing among white, black, and Latino voters, with the excitement necessary to engage new and young voters. Would have happened in 2016 if not for some of the most corrupt, disgusting behind the scenes deals by the DNC to favor a deeply unpopular Hillary, which was all a move to keep corporate money influence in our politics.

His campaigns main pillars, single payer healthcare, free college tuition for public colleges, properly taxing the richest, and support for green new deal, enjoy majority popular support. Personally, the fact that my healthcare plan is tied to my job, if I’m lucky enough for my employer to offer it, is bizarrely dumb. It is Increasingly obvious how bad this cruel profit driven system is for the average American, with virtually no safety nets for someone who has lost their job, which is why Bernie’s efforts makes pragmatic sense with the best outcome for all.

It is absolutely hilarious to watch on air wealthy network political commentators, as well as main news website coverages bend over absolutely backwards to avoid saying anything positive about Bernie, or acknowledge his lead and popular support. It is almost a race to see who can trickle the least bit of coverage and prop up ANYONE else, they are trying to pull the same dirty tricks, but I don’t think it will work in 2020 though. I really believe Trump’s dangerous ridiculousness has put a white hot spotlight the country’s serious democratic deficiencies and systemic corruption in both parties. Who gets their news from these corporate suckling dishonest bastards anyway these days? Christ this county is in a state...


=D>

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 Post subject: Re: Not me. Us.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:27 pm 
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FEBRUARY 13, 2020

The Red-Baiting of Bernie Sanders Has Begun and is Already Becoming Laughable

by DAVE LINDORFF


With Bernie Sanders now having won New Hampshire (and probably Iowa, where he won the popular vote) and confirmed his position as the frontrunner for president in the Democratic Party primaries (the New York Times’ poll guru Nate Silver is giving him a better than 40% chance of gaining enough delegates by the end of the primary season to win the nomination on the all-important first ballot at the National Convention in July), it’s becoming open season on socialism and its more anodyne relative democratic socialism.

A few days ago, right-wing columnist Marc Thiessen, writing in my local paper, the Philadelphia Inquirer, mocked the catastrophic mess of the Iowa Democratic Caucus, where there is still, six days after the voting, no clear decision on who won, Sanders or Pete Buttigieg, blaming the fiasco on “the same brilliant minds who came up with Medicare-for-All and the ‘Green New Deal.’” His conclusion, “The Democrats’ failure in Iowa stemmed from the same fundamental flaw that has caused socialism to fail (sic) wherever it is tried — the hubris of a tiny cadre whose grand visions and lack of humility far exceed their ability to deliver.”

Thiessen’s thesis fails on a number of factual grounds, of course. First of all, the failure of the Iowa Caucus was not the work of socialists at all or of the Sanders campaign. In fact the self-described social democrat in that race, Bernie Sanders, was the victim of the foul-up (if that is what it was and not sabotage). It was the work of neoliberal veterans of the 2016 Clinton campaign and the earlier Obama years who had teamed up to found a tech company, Shadow Inc., which got contracted by the neoliberal Democratic National Committee in secret to create a totally unneeded smartphone-based app for counting and tracking the votes in state caucuses and primaries. The app was so poorly designed, so untested, and was presented so late and with no training to Iowa caucus workers that it failed stunningly, even awarding delegates to the wrong candidates. This has led experts to conclude that it may be impossible to find out who really won the Iowa delegate count. What is clear and unarguable is that Sanders won the popular vote, both on the first round of voting, and on the second when supporters of losing candidates were allowed to shift their vote to their second-favorite top-tier candidate.

What Thiessen should have said was “The same brilliant minds in the Hillary Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee who stole the primary from Bernie Sanders in 2016 are trying to do it again.”

But he couldn’t say that because he was so eager to tar “socialism” with the blame. He even linked the alleged “socialist” fiasco to Soviet Russia, citing a Soviet-era joke about it taking 10 years to get delivery of a car after purchase.. Of course that would have ruined his plan to use the cock-up as an opening to besmirch “socialism.”

Thiessen’s not alone, though, in his willful ignorance about socialism — or in his willingness to lie about its reality in countries where its virtues have been practiced for over half a century.

For another example of how luridly ignorant and dishonest the media and the political opponents of socialist ideas are in this intellectual backwater of reaction we rather ironically call the United States, take the MSNBC talking-head host, Chris Matthews. Speaking on an MSNBC panel after last Thursday evening’s New Hampshire Democratic candidates’ debate, Matthews opined that if Sanders were to win the presidency, he would end up establishing a dictatorship and start having his opponents shot.

Even his co-panelists were aghast it the absurdity of this claim, but Matthews doubled down saying, “I believe if Castro and the reds had won the Cold War there would have been executions in Central Park and I might have been one of the ones getting executed,” adding, ”I don’t know who Bernie Sanders supports over these years, I don’t know what he means by socialism.”

Fellow MSNBC host Chris Hayes noted that Sanders frequently cites the decidedly peaceful democratic nation of Denmark, which boasts such socialist-inspired policies as government-run health insurance, free college, government-owned public transit and expansive paid maternity/paternity leave. To that Matthews replied combatively, “How do you know that? Has he said that?”

Well, yes, countless numbers of times, Chris, but maybe it doesn’t get reported on your network.

This is, I’m afraid, only the start. So propagandized has the US been by almost a century of lurid anti-Communist and anti-socialist red-baiting in our schools, our media and in the rhetoric of our political duopoly of pro-capitalist parties that all too many Americans unthinkingly accept and parrot this kind of ignorant nonsense. People don’t even realize that our own excellently run Veterans Health Care system is a purely socialist example of a UK-style National Health System, government-owned with doctors on salary, or that our Medicare program is a socialist-style, single-payer government-run health insurance program like Canada’s. You just have to be old or disabled to qualify for it.

Look at Trump’s vow in his State of the Union rant, to “never allow socialism” to “take over” the United States. Think I’m paranoid? Look at how MSNBC commentator Jake Johnson (supposedly a political scientist professor!) freaked out when Bernie Sanders spokeswoman Nina Turner referred to Democratic Primary late buy-in candidate Mike Bloomberg, $60-billion former mayor of NY City and world’s 12th-richest person, an “oligarch.” Johnson called her word choice “unfair and inaccurate” and added that the word had “implications in this country that I think are unfair and unreasonable.”

In other words, to people like Johnson, it’s countries like Russia, Ukraine, Byelorus and maybe China that have “oligarchs,” but not the US, where we instead have “billionaires” whom we often refer to euphemistically as “philanthropists” because they donate a small portion of their year’s profits to charities of one kind or another.

Turner argues there is little or no difference. “Buying his way into the primaries” which Bloomburg, who is bypassing all the early contests while spending so far over $350 million on advertising and on hiring paid ‘influencers’ to promote his brand, is doing, she argued, makes him an “oligarch.”

This is the problem in a nutshell: The harsh reality is that the US today has among the most extreme wealth and income gaps in the world — indeed in the history of mankind. Our government — and this has been documented — is today almost totally responsive only to the needs and wishes of the wealthy and their corporations, whose lobbyists, it turns out, actually write most of the legislation that gets passed into law by Congress. The rich, who are for the most part beyond the law, pay little or nothing in taxes, shift their profits and wealth abroad to off-shore banking shelters with impunity, and legally bribe the members of Congress and the candidates for the presidency as well as their cabinet officers with what are called “campaign contributions,” free trips on corporate jets to exotic resorts, and promises of lucrative do-nothing positions on corporate boards after they leave their political jobs as errand-boys and girls for the rich and powerful.

So let’s take a look for the uneducated, ignorant and propagandized at what socialism and democratic socialism actually mean in the real world.

Socialism is for starters fundamentally democratic (democratic socialism is really a tautology). It advocates and celebrates the idea of people controlling their government by the electing of representatives who run the government, but also envisions extending that democratic control to the workplace, particularly in areas of economic activity where there is a paucity of competition (as in the energy industry, the arms industry, the power sector, utilities, health care the media and mass transit}. Sometimes that control comes in the form of government takeover of an industry, as for example of healthcare in the UK, the railways in Germany or France, or the Post Office in the US. Sometimes it can come in the form of giving workers and even local communities — so-called stakeholders in the proper running of a company where they work or live — seats on the boards of enterprises. This is a requirement for large industrial firms in Germany and some other countries.

The US, since at least 1917 and the success of the Russian Revolution, has deliberately conflated socialism with Soviet Communism and later with Chinese Communism. (I should add that the US has also, all the way back to 1917, actively worked through economic strangulation and military action, to crush any attempts around the world to actually create a socialist society, from the Russian Revolution through election manipulation in France, Italy and Australia, to embargo and subversion in Cuba, coups in Chile, Brazil, Uruguay, Argentina and elsewhere in Latin America, and elsewhere, and wars in Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Congo and other countries. This sordid history makes the common argument spouted in the US that socialism “doesn’t work,” spurious in the extreme.)

Actually though, even Lenin himself readily admitted that Russia had not succeeded (and could not expect to succeed) in achieving the “socialism” described above, because of its primitive level of industrial and class development, and so it was limited to a kind of “state capitalism.” He was correct, but the thought leaders in the US ruling class backed by the lickspittle “independent media” in this country have ignored that point and stick with the false claim that the Soviet Union and Maoist China, with all the horrors of dictatorship they imposed on their peoples, provide examples of the “evils of socialism.” (Never mind that before the Russian and Chinese revolutions peasants were virtual or even legal slaves of the land-owners, the countries were a ruled by a Czar or a bunch of brutal warlords, respectively, and freedom didn’t exist for the vast majority of the people.)

Back in the early 1960s, as first President Kennedy and then Lyndon Johnson worked to establish what eventually became the Medicare program for the elderly and disabled, an actor named Ronald Reagan was hired by the American Medical Association to attack the idea in a series of paid public advertisements on radio and TV. As Reagan warned darkly, if “socialized medicine,” which is what he called government insurance for the elderly and disabled, were established by Congress, “behind it will come other federal programs that will invade every area of freedom as we have known it in this country until, one day as Norman Thomas said, we will awake to find that we have socialism… and one of these days you and I are going to spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it was like in America when men were free.”

Of course, by 1981 when Reagan was elected president, Medicare and Medicaid had been operating for 16 years. By that point, Americans loved both programs, which were significantly improving the health and longevity of the nation’s people even if they didn’t always realize they were benefitting from a program that is socialist in form and inspiration. Freedom in any event hadn’t declined at all. Indeed freedom from poverty was far greater because far fewer of the elderly were going bust paying for medical care, and far fewer younger adults were being bankrupted trying to care for their aging parents, grandparents and disabled family members.

Medicare, Medicaid, free public college, subsidized transit and the like are not, in themselves, socialism, but they are socialist ideas, as are electric power cooperatives and municipally owned water systems. Bernie Sanders’ idea of expanding and improving Medicare into a program of Medicare for All so that nobody (and nobody’s employer) needs to pay thousands of dollars annually for individual medical insurance or tens of thousands of dollars for family medical insurance and related health care costs. Sanders favors free public college because a nation’s young people are all of our responsibility. If they succeed, we all succeed as a nation. And they cannot succeed if they graduate with a degree and $50-100,000 in student loans, some bearing interest as high as 9%.

Socialism has nothing to do with freedom and democracy or a lack of it and everything to do with building a caring society that seeks to raise everyone and give everyone the opportunity to work and succeed in that society. Socialism is not scary, it’s not Communism and it’s not dictatorship, whatever the wack-jobs like Jake Johnson, Chris Matthews of MSNBC or Sanders’ latest red-baiting attacker, Joe Biden, may say.

Bernie got it right when he told Pete Buttigieg, who has the financial backing of 40 billionaires, “You cannot take support to billionaires and then say you’re going to be for the people.”

For me, the simple way to look at it is this: socialism is the idea that democracy should be expanded beyond the political sphere to include the economic sphere. It takes the freedom which today exists largely only in the home and on one’s front yard but that gets chipped away elsewhere and doesn’t even exist inside the workplace, and extends it to the workplace and beyond. Socialism’s premise is that government and society at large have a responsibility for the welfare of a country’s most vulnerable, and that the aggregation of vast wealth and the existence of grinding poverty are antithetical to a good society. Capitalism’s premise, in contrast, is that the pursuit of wealth in itself is a positive thing, and that the achieving of wealth is prima face evidence of the virtue of the person who has it, while poverty is the deserved result of a person’s presumed lack of industry.

Dave Lindorff is a founding member of ThisCantBeHappening!, an online newspaper collective, and is a contributor to Hopeless: Barack Obama and the Politics of Illusion (AK Press).

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 Post subject: Re: Not me. Us.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:24 pm 
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Holyman wrote:

He doesn't need details.

He just says:

"We'll do it like *EVERY* other national society on the Planet does it."



We don't need details - we are Socialists!

Can you name me one single country that started with a HUGE, advanced and costly healthcare system like America's (with high paid doctors, nurses, drug companies and powerful hospitals) and converted it into Single Payer overnight?

Just like the Climate Extremists, they want to tip the whole system over on its head and have no clue about the massive pain it will cause.


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 Post subject: Re: Not me. Us.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:03 pm 
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Get the hospitals and suchlike to send their bills to the government, who will then pay it and raise taxes accordingly.

Simples!

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 Post subject: Re: Not me. Us.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:30 pm 
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DEANNA79 wrote:
To be honest Midnight... I personally think an uncircumcised penis is repugnant! Barcy should really get himself snipped, it's so much sexier, IMHO.


Well exactly, and there are a ton of rabbis that will perform that who are also urologist, and can expertly do it. I think their called Mohels.

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[**==] [**==] SomeGuy 2020 [**==] [**==]
[**==] [**==] It's going to be a [**==] [**==]
[**==] [**==] Brave New World [**==] [**==]


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 Post subject: Re: Not me. Us.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:42 pm 
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Colonel
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Location: teh internet
Why would anyone bother with unnecessary & superstitious religious rituals from the book of fucking Genesis? The practice of circumcision will be forgotten in another generation or two.


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 Post subject: Re: Not me. Us.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:46 pm 
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Corporal
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SomeGuy wrote:
vectorline wrote:
His campaigns main pillars, single payer healthcare


Would be unworkable. He has no details about how he'd actually make it work if he was even to set out doing such a thing.

It's been a constant campaign promise for decades from Democrats and they've had ample opportunities over that time to do it. So why didn't they? Is it that it doesn't work? Or is it that they need people perpetually kept down and hooked to the promise of "someday we'll have single payer healthcare! Vote for me!"?


It is workable because it works in most industrial societies, with much less wealth than us, so saying it can't be done is not factual. Sanders has thought quite a bit about it, so that is false. There is a more detailed breakdown you can find by googling "options-to-finance-medicare-for-all" that gives more thorough details for all the household, corporate, wealth tax percentages changes laid out, a transitional timeline etc.

Democrats have not done it because they are mostly thoroughly corrupt in the pockets of the elite. It benefits them to say one thing to appear democratic while keeping the for-profit health care system in place. The disastrous "Citizens United" Supreme Court decision guarantees that legalized corporate bribery maintains good cash flow into their campaigns and sweetheart deals, they have no incentive to make it happen unless there is a groundswell from the bottom which threatens their seats.

Both parties are in appalling states right now, and our country can blame many things including our own people's whisper weak political involvement and voting apathy.


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 Post subject: Re: Not me. Us.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:08 pm 
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Lieutenant-Colonel
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vectorline wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
vectorline wrote:
His campaigns main pillars, single payer healthcare


Would be unworkable. He has no details about how he'd actually make it work if he was even to set out doing such a thing.

It's been a constant campaign promise for decades from Democrats and they've had ample opportunities over that time to do it. So why didn't they? Is it that it doesn't work? Or is it that they need people perpetually kept down and hooked to the promise of "someday we'll have single payer healthcare! Vote for me!"?


It is workable because it works in most industrial societies,


That are much smaller than the US and ethnically homogeneous that didn't already have a massive private healthcare system set up.

Same question I posed to HM, can you name a single country that converted to Single Payer that already had a MASSIVE private healthcare system set up? Do you have a clue how many people like me who are going to be absolutely outraged if we lose our current system and doctors that we enjoy so we can pay higher taxes to give free healthcare to bums and illegals?

Besides, most of those "industrialized societies" still have co-pays, deductibles and premiums on top of a shit ton of rationing.

vectorline wrote:
Sanders has thought quite a bit about it, so that is false.



As a Conservative, I hope and pray that the Democrats are foolish enough to nominate Bernie. He may be more authentic (and even honest) than the rest of the Democrats running - but his ideas are still absolute crap and he has a ton of baggage.

Never forget, Bernie got kicked out of hippy commune in the 1970's because all he did was "think" and run his mouth and was too lazy to work in the collective. This is the guy that honeymooned in Moscow during the height of the Cold War and even sided with the Ayatollahs against the US during the hostage crisis in the 1970's. All the while he managed to become a millionaire and have several homes.

I couldn't ask for a better Commie caricature to run against Trump.


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 Post subject: Re: Not me. Us.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:14 pm 
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Colonel
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I'm with Bernie, not because I actually give a damn but because he triggers the radical rightists. >*^*<


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 Post subject: Re: Not me. Us.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:15 pm 
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Bums and illegal????


How about the poor who can't afford it. How about the folks who have become bankrupt?


You lack empathy .. You have zero.


Shameful. A human is a human is a human.

_________________
Empir immoto


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