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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:44 pm 
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Holyman wrote:
Turkey is in NATO.

Trump could save the Kurds by the simple expedient of threatening to expel Turkey from NATO.

Why doesn't he?

Also:

Nobody at the OP is trying to defend the Turkish Government.

So not much sport to be found criticising Erdogan, is there?

>&8~



Well why doesn't the rest of NATO put pressure on turkey then? why is this strictly a trump matter?

We're talking about pulling out a thousand troops and everyone wants to lose their minds. please by all means replace them with a thousand of your own there's nothing stopping you.

Seriously!!!

Erdogan aside, who we would all like to get rid of, Turkey is a long time US Ally. Strategically turkeys much more important than the Kurds. Kurds aren't hosting any of our nuclear weapons, Turks are hosting about 50 of them. The US army trained some of the same Kurd organizations that are previously carried out terrorist attacks in Turkey so the Turks have legitimate security concerns.

Trump campaign on disengaging us from all these foreign conflicts and not get involved in a new one. If all this stationing troops in Syria is such a good idea then why doesn't the EU take over the responsibility?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:02 pm 
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MIDNIGHT wrote:
Well why doesn't the rest of NATO put pressure on turkey then? why is this strictly a trump matter?


Well…

In case you weren’t aware..:

The United States Government is the capo di tutti capo of NATO.

The U.S. created NATO; the U.S. insists that NATO is still relevant and necessary; and the U.S. spends a lot of time trying to convince its reluctant NATO “Partners [sic]”, that maintaining NATO is still necessary.

When the U.S. orders its NATO subordinates to go to War, they will usually follow.

But since when can any other member of NATO compel the U.S. to go to War?

The U.S. didn’t even come out for the U.K. when the Argentinian Fascist Dictatorship invaded the Falkland Islands: why was that?

I mean, c’mon Midnight: you don’t seriously believe that NATO is a genuinely multilateral organization, do you?

It’s just a catspaw for the U.S.

“…why doesn’t the rest of NATO put pressure on Turkey then?”

>&8~

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:05 pm 
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Junior-IRL wrote:
As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I’ve done before!).


HAHAHAHHA,, holy fuck, this man's narcissism knows no bounds.


Well HolyMan just suggested Trump kick Turkey out of NATO.

:-? What's harder and more unrealistic? Trump unilaterally kicking them out of NATO, so then we have zero leverage on them. (If it's even possible for him to kick them out on his say alone :-? )

Or him making some strong threats?

Again please absolutely lose your mind!!! If Trump's statement in any way curbs the Turks behavior then who cares how grandiosis it sounded, point us to get their attention and make them think twice.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:12 pm 
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Holyman wrote:
MIDNIGHT wrote:
Well why doesn't the rest of NATO put pressure on turkey then? why is this strictly a trump matter?


Well…

In case you weren’t aware..:

The United States Government is the capo di tutti capo of NATO.

The U.S. created NATO; the U.S. insists that NATO is still relevant and necessary; and the U.S. spends a lot of time trying to convince its reluctant NATO “Partners [sic]”, that maintaining NATO is still necessary.

When the U.S. orders its NATO subordinates to go to War, they will usually follow.

But since when can any other member of NATO compel the U.S. to go to War?

The U.S. didn’t even come out for the U.K. when the Argentinian Fascist Dictatorship invaded the Falkland Islands: why was that?

I mean, c’mon Midnight: you don’t seriously believe that NATO is a genuinely multilateral organization, do you?

It’s just a catspaw for the U.S.

“…why doesn’t the rest of NATO put pressure on Turkey then?”

>&8~


The Falklands......

As I recall we gave the UK logistical support like fueling your Vulcan bombers when they flew a 5 billion mile mission from the UK to go bomb said fascist.

And as far as you helping us out in the poorly thought of out debacle in Iraq, that was still payback for the first time we helped you out with logistical support against fascist. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:21 pm 
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MIDNIGHT wrote:
As I recall we gave the UK logistical support like fueling your Vulcan bombers when they flew a 5 billion mile mission from the UK to go bomb said fascist.


One Vulcan bombing mission.

One (British) runway bombed.

Gee. Thanks.

Also:

How the U.S. Almost Betrayed Britain

Alexander Haig wanted Reagan to side with the Argentines over the Falklands, newly released papers show


MIDNIGHT wrote:
And as far as you helping us out in the poorly thought of out debacle in Iraq, that was still payback for the first time we helped you out with logistical support against fascist.


The UK *PAID* you for all that "support".

That's *HOW* the United States enjoyed the most prosperous period in its History: it obtained pretty much the entire wealth of the British Empire, in exchange for "supporting" it during WWII.

U=B}

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:40 pm 
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This gave me a flashback...

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:42 pm 
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As far as stabbing the Kurds in the back shit. Isis was a way bigger threat to them than us. Teaming up with them to annihilate ISIS was common interest.

It was the Kurds who we're going to get ethnically cleansed and their women turned into sex slaves by Isis, not the US. They needed our help a lot more than we needed theirs. In fact we even went against Turkey, one of our long-term allies in supporting them.

That mission is done. Staying longer is problematic. It causes a national interest conflict with long-term ally turkey. It leaves us occupying territory of long time Russian ally Syria. it's potential causes additional conflict with Iran. It's a thankless job. It causes anti-US sentiment. It gets used as justification for terrorism elsewhere. Our troops are excellent at going in and destroying opponents, they suck as police.

Trump and our soldier had a hard-on for killing Isis. Now that that done we're splitting. We weren't looking to get married, this was just a hook up, nothing more.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:43 pm 
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MIDNIGHT wrote:
As far as stabbing the Kurds in the back shit. Isis was a way bigger threat to them than us. Teaming up with them to annihilate ISIS was common interest.

It was the Kurds who we're going to get ethnically cleansed and their women turned into sex slaves by Isis, not the US. They needed our help a lot more than we needed theirs. In fact we even went against Turkey, one of our long-term allies in supporting them.

That mission is done. Staying longer is problematic. It causes a national interest conflict with long-term ally turkey. It leaves us occupying territory of long time Russian ally Syria. it's potential causes additional conflict with Iran. It's a thankless job. It causes anti-US sentiment. It gets used as justification for terrorism elsewhere. Our troops are excellent at going in and destroying opponents, they suck as police.

Trump and our soldier had a hard-on for killing Isis. Now that that done we're splitting. We weren't looking to get married, this was just a hook up, nothing more.


...and everyone lived happily ever after


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:50 pm 
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MIDNIGHT wrote:
Junior-IRL wrote:
As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I’ve done before!).


HAHAHAHHA,, holy fuck, this man's narcissism knows no bounds.


Well HolyMan just suggested Trump kick Turkey out of NATO.

:-? What's harder and more unrealistic? Trump unilaterally kicking them out of NATO, so then we have zero leverage on them. (If it's even possible for him to kick them out on his say alone :-? )

Or him making some strong threats?

Again please absolutely lose your mind!!! If Trump's statement in any way curbs the Turks behavior then who cares how grandiosis it sounded, point us to get their attention and make them think twice.


1. I'm sorry to break this to you but nobody here is "losing their mind". I know this means you have to stop with the incredulous Tucker Carlson facial expressions, but it's true.

2. Defend the threat all you want, but you'd have to have your lips well and truly around Trump's mushroom to think that 'in my great and unmatched wisdom' was anything more than a dumb, narcissistic thing to add. It made it sound less threatening in fact.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:17 pm 
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Does this mean that our 15+ year war on an emotion is finally coming to an end? Have we now officially beat terror?

Gentlemen. Hold your criticism. This is a day to rejoice. <:-P

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:31 pm 
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MIDNIGHT wrote:
then why doesn't the EU take over the responsibility?


They're incapable, that's why. No really, the most militarily powerful and ready countries in Europe outside Russia are Poland and Ukraine. Ukraine is busy with its own stuff and it's not right to ask Poland to clean up French and British problems in the region caused by Sykes-Picot.

Everyone else is woefully inadequate. To put this in perspective, the Germans don't have enough working small arms to do training exercises, so they use brooms as mockups. The Brits can't seem to operate more than a dozen ships at any one time. The French can't afford new rifles to replace their POS the FAMAS. Everyone else is a shambles. If the Russians invaded outside of Poland or Ukraine tomorrow, they'd reach the Pyrenees inside of three weeks. That's how poor the place is and the Russians right now are nowhere near as capable as the 1980s Soviet Union.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:57 pm 
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tgrant wrote:
Does this mean that our 15+ year war on an emotion is finally coming to an end? Have we now officially beat terror?

Gentlemen. Hold your criticism. This is a day to rejoice. <:-P



Tragically not at all.

And a strong argument can probably be made that you can never beat the terrorist militarily.

But you can certainly stomp shit out if them, make them go hide in caves and become largely ineffective.

Our efforts in Afghanistan were largely self-sabotaged because we decided to refocus our resources in Iraq.

So far our efforts in Syria, have exceeded everyone's wildest expectations. Well except for Trump's, he knew what needed to be done and took care of business. Now that that business is concluded we are leaving.

It has nothing to do with whether they're still terrorist in the world.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:06 pm 
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PBFMullethunter wrote:
This gave me a flashback...

Image


I remeber watching the TV show (I read the books too..!), and laughing hysterically at the scene where Adrian tells his dad the Argies have invaded the Falkland Islands...

...And his dad freaks out because (like most Brits in the early 80's) he thought the Falklands were off the coast of Scotland somewhere.

Laughed my tits off!

:))

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:10 pm 
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MIDNIGHT wrote:
But you can certainly stomp shit out if them, make them go hide in caves and become largely ineffective.


Bet you can't!

:D

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:17 pm 
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Slacks wrote:
MIDNIGHT wrote:
Junior-IRL wrote:
As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I’ve done before!).


HAHAHAHHA,, holy fuck, this man's narcissism knows no bounds.


Well HolyMan just suggested Trump kick Turkey out of NATO.

:-? What's harder and more unrealistic? Trump unilaterally kicking them out of NATO, so then we have zero leverage on them. (If it's even possible for him to kick them out on his say alone :-? )

Or him making some strong threats?

Again please absolutely lose your mind!!! If Trump's statement in any way curbs the Turks behavior then who cares how grandiosis it sounded, point us to get their attention and make them think twice.


1. I'm sorry to break this to you but nobody here is "losing their mind". I know this means you have to stop with the incredulous Tucker Carlson facial expressions, but it's true.

2. Defend the threat all you want, but you'd have to have your lips well and truly around Trump's mushroom to think that 'in my great and unmatched wisdom' was anything more than a dumb, narcissistic thing to add. It made it sound less threatening in fact.


1. I only wish I could pull off facial expressions like that

2. LOL, if anything I wish Trump would just STFU, and just quietly carry out the policies he said he would as a candidate. Believe me I hate all the stupid cringeworthy crap he constantly says too. But we voted for somebody who wasn't an establishment, status quo, more the same politician and that's what we got, the good, the bad and the ugly. But it's still better than what the alternative would have been and definitely still better than what's currently being offered up as alternative candidates.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:22 pm 
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Holyman wrote:
MIDNIGHT wrote:
But you can certainly stomp shit out if them, make them go hide in caves and become largely ineffective.


Bet you can't!

:D


We already did it. :>_

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:25 pm 
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PBFMullethunter wrote:
MIDNIGHT wrote:
As far as stabbing the Kurds in the back shit. Isis was a way bigger threat to them than us. Teaming up with them to annihilate ISIS was common interest.

It was the Kurds who we're going to get ethnically cleansed and their women turned into sex slaves by Isis, not the US. They needed our help a lot more than we needed theirs. In fact we even went against Turkey, one of our long-term allies in supporting them.

That mission is done. Staying longer is problematic. It causes a national interest conflict with long-term ally turkey. It leaves us occupying territory of long time Russian ally Syria. it's potential causes additional conflict with Iran. It's a thankless job. It causes anti-US sentiment. It gets used as justification for terrorism elsewhere. Our troops are excellent at going in and destroying opponents, they suck as police.

Trump and our soldier had a hard-on for killing Isis. Now that that done we're splitting. We weren't looking to get married, this was just a hook up, nothing more.


...and everyone lived happily ever after


No just the families of 1000 soldiers we're bringing back

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:47 pm 
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MIDNIGHT wrote:
Holyman wrote:
MIDNIGHT wrote:
But you can certainly stomp shit out if them, make them go hide in caves and become largely ineffective.


Bet you can't!


We already did it.


We'll see.

Incidentally, what role did ypu personally play in your victory?

:|

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:06 pm 
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Holyman wrote:
MIDNIGHT wrote:
Holyman wrote:

Bet you can't!


We already did it.


We'll see.

Incidentally, what role did ypu personally play in your victory?

:|


I was already too old to join any branch if the US military well before 911 happened. Nor would family commitments allow me just to simply quit my job and become some type of civilian or private military contractor. Although I did give that some consideration, it was ultimately never a serious option.

So I would say you could safely put me in the category of a person who didn't actually contribute shit.

Now I do support our troops, and I did on more than one occasion help put together care packages to be sent to Iraq and Afghanistan as a token gesture of our appreciation.

I also voted for Trump, who said during his campaign that once he was put in charge, he would exterminate The Islamic caliphate, ISIS had created. Which he quietly did.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:35 pm 
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So it was your thoughts that counted then.

Thank you for your service.

:|

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:39 pm 
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Oh, also:

The Russians and Syrians defeated ISIS (this time), not the United States.

The U.S. (and its ally Saudi Arabia) was more than happy for ISIS to be an exploding thorn in Assad's side.

The Russians weren't so conflicted in their priorities.

But, you know, Trump and Putin seem to have quite a co-operative relationship, and I'm sure Trump will have contributed "Thoughts and Prayers" to the overall effort.

But really, who cares *WHO* defeated ISIS, so long as ISIS remains defeated.

Right?

:-S

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:58 pm 
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Holyman wrote:
So it was your thoughts that counted then.

Thank you for your service.

:|



Mock me all you want you pacifist/aggressifist closet warmonger.

I really wasn't at a lifest stage, that allowed for meaningful participation.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:01 pm 
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Holyman wrote:
Oh, also:

The Russians and Syrians defeated ISIS (this time), not the United States.

The U.S. (and its ally Saudi Arabia) was more than happy for ISIS to be an exploding thorn in Assad's side.

The Russians weren't so conflicted in their priorities.

But, you know, Trump and Putin seem to have quite a co-operative relationship, and I'm sure Trump will have contributed "Thoughts and Prayers" to the overall effort.

But really, who cares *WHO* defeated ISIS, so long as ISIS remains defeated.

Right?

:-S



Not that I necessarily agree with your statement. But let's go with that, no harm in Trump planning to pull our troops out, since per your assertion, they had nothing to do with ISIS anyways they're absence won't cause a resurgence like everybody on CNN and MSN are hysterically proclaiming.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:12 pm 
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We're not discussing Trump's withdrawal of troops from Syria in reference to ISIS.

We're discussing it in terms of Trump's abandonment of the U.S.'s Kurdish allies to the tender mercies of a desperately insecure Turkish President, who is keen to bolster his strongman credentials for domestic political reasons.

In other words:

The U.S. is fucking the Kurds again, just like it did after the 1991 Gulf War.

Worse still, the U.S. doesn't recognise that this same process will further enable the creation of yet another unstable Middle Eastern despot

You know, like we could really do with another one of those right now.

Just the ticket, eh?

>&8~

P.S. I would never mock you Midnight. But I do enjoy mocking some of the viewpoints you express.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:29 pm 
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Holyman wrote:
We're not discussing Trump's withdrawal of troops from Syria in reference to ISIS.


But destroying the ISIS caliphate and pushing them out off Iraq was the reason Obama and Trump had to resend troops that Obama pulled out in 2010. How long do you think US troops should stay in Syria killing Russians, Iranians, ISIS and Assad's troops?

Holyman wrote:
In other words:

The U.S. is fucking the Kurds again, just like it did after the 1991 Gulf War.


I seem to remember the US protecting the Kurds with No Fly Zones for 10 years after the Gulf War and then boots on the ground for another 19 years after that.

The US has done more to support the Kurds than "The Rest of the WorldTM" combined.

Provided Trump is serious about whacking Erdogan if he over-reaches, I think (hope) we can continue to support the Kurds with small numbers of special forces and airpower. One of my co-workers in Boston who is in the Air-force Reserves as an intelligence officer has already served 2 tours in Syria.


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