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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:12 pm 
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Holyman
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Can you do anything you put your mind to?

:-?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:14 pm 
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Individually or collectively?

Individually no because success depends on factors outside my control, such as other peoe.

Collectively still no because there are physical restrictions in place.

Unless of course time and space is infinite....

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:19 pm 
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We could do a large part of what humans have done.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:23 pm 
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LOL...nope. Probably one of the most damaging things we tell young people.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:31 pm 
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Can we as individuals, each do anything that another human being has already demonstrated is possible for a human being to do?

:-?

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"“A rising share of the goods that make today’s capitalist economies grow would not sell if people dreamed other dreams than they do—which makes understanding, developing and controlling their dreams a fundamental concern of political economy in advanced-capitalist society.”" - Wolfgang Streeck


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:32 pm 
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If we put our minds to it?

:-?

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"“A rising share of the goods that make today’s capitalist economies grow would not sell if people dreamed other dreams than they do—which makes understanding, developing and controlling their dreams a fundamental concern of political economy in advanced-capitalist society.”" - Wolfgang Streeck


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:47 pm 
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No, as we are all different. But I reckon we can achieve a significant portion of what other humans have proven to be doable.

Not everyone is getting to the Olympics, but you can get to within 3 seconds of the 100m record, no worries.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:18 pm 
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tgrant wrote:
LOL...nope. Probably one of the most damaging things we tell young people.


THIS x1000

“Yes just follow your dreams! You can be ANYTHING!”

... no you can’t. Only a miniscule percentage are smart enough to even get into university science programs, let alone medical school etc. Same for law school and engineering...

Mediocrity is generally not a choice.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:44 pm 
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As a counterpoint, you CAN do anything you set your mind to...within reason.

Want to climb a mountain? Set your mind to it and you can do it.

Want to learn to change a tire on a car? Set your mind to it and you can learn. (Slacks...hint hint.)

Want to set the record for longest wall of text on Reddit ever? So big it might crash their servers? Set your mind to it and you can do it though it might take you a while. (With Holyman's propensity for verboseness he might be able to do it in a weekend or less. Maybe even a single day.)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:48 pm 
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SomeGuy wrote:
Want to climb a mountain? Set your mind to it and you can do it.


Not everyone has the genetics. Nobody has the genetics for the altitude of Everest for any length of time. Few people have the skills for the Eiger.
However, many people could get to base camp.

The further you approach and extreme, the less people will be able, that is why we celebrate the abnormal. Changing a tyre just aint awesome, hence we celebrate how abnormal Slacks' skills are.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:15 pm 
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Wunderschlung wrote:
Changing a tyre just aint awesome, hence we celebrate how abnormal Slacks' skills are.


We celebrate that? I thought we were just taking the piss out of him. Good old ribbing.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:26 pm 
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Holyman wrote:
Can we as individuals, each do anything that another human being has already demonstrated is possible for a human being to do?

:-?


Have fun running a 9.57 if you put your mind to it...

Individuals can't do anything they put their mind to it...Steven Hawking was never going to run a 9.57 no matter how much of his awesome brain he dedicated to it...likewise Bolt ain't coming out with any plausible theories on dark matter or black holes.

We are who we are...flawed in many ways and great in others. No one is perfect... some are much further away from perfection than others for some things...so the ability to do anything we set our minds to isn't currently within our grasp. IMO.

That being said I don't think that should get in the way of following our passions...just cause I will never be the best runner doesn't mean I won't live a satisfying life if I go out and do it. Same thing with most of my hobbies. I'm not going to sell any photos but I'm going to enjoy the fuck out of making them.

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Change is the Law of The Universe

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:52 pm 
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Holyman
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tgrant wrote:
Holyman wrote:
Can we as individuals, each do anything that another human being has already demonstrated is possible for a human being to do?


Have fun running a 9.57 if you put your mind to it...


Perhaps you might never be able to run the distance in that time... But might you be able to get close, if you put your mind to it...

I mean... Alright... Let's discount whatever proportion of the population have been born with physical limitations, that are (mostly) guaranteed to prevent their ever running that fast. (This is your *VERY* specific example tG... You'll have to let me have a *BIT* of wiggle room...)

And can I rationalise things down a bit to merely running the 100 in less than 10 seconds? (Might make the maths easier later on... (I have no idea where I'm going with this?))

And... Can women run the 100 in less than 10 yet..? I'm sure it's only a matter of Time... I just can't be arsed to Google what Time it is.

So:

Could more or less any adult (male?) human run 100m in less than 10 seconds, if they really put their mind to it?

tgrant wrote:
Individuals can't do anything they put their mind to it...Steven Hawking was never going to run a 9.57 no matter how much of his awesome brain he dedicated to it...likewise Bolt ain't coming out with any plausible theories on dark matter or black holes.


Desire and motivation are necessary prerequisites for any human achievement.

It is unlikely that Professor Hawking ever experienced a moment's desire in his whole life, to be able to run 100 yards in less than 10 seconds. I can't imagine his desires ever went beyond just being able to run.

But let's refine:

We have to acknowledge that personal desire and motivation to actually do a thing... Are necessary prerequisites for being able to "put our mind" to doing that thing...

We can never keep our minds on something we don't want to do... Not while we're doing it, least-ways... While we're doing it, our minds are usually on all the other things we'd rather be doing...

*BEFORE* we do the thing that we don't want to do... That's a different story..!

Before we do the thing that we don't want to do... It's pretty much the *ONLY* thing our minds are on.

But not while we're doing it...

Which is usually why we make such a bad job of doing the thing that we don't want to do. Because we aren't putting our minds to the job at hand... But usually to the job we'd rather be doing.

And because we make such a bad job of it... We want to do it even less.

And so it spirals down.

Anyhoo...

Can we do anything that we want to do, that is humanly possible, if we put our minds to it?

:-?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:41 am 
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Quote:
Can we do anything that we want to do, that is humanly possible, if we put our minds to it?


In order for anyone to be able to do anything they set their minds to you'd have to believe we are all created equal and that just isn't the case. It's also a bit of a dangerous way of viewing the human condition. Some people win the genetic lottery. Good for them. Encourage them to go as far as they can (olympics, high level universities). Just like we have tremendous physical differences so to do we have huge variance in mental capacity. Some people are born with bodies that allow them to run crazy fast and others brains that allow them to conceptualize ideas that others can't even comprehend. Some get both the brains and the bodies. Some neither. That's the beauty and cruelty of genetic variance.

That doesn't mean that we shouldn't encourage people to become the best they can be at things they are interested in. In my mind people should always follow their passions. However, if you believe you can do anything as long as you work hard enough you will be setting yourself up for failure...also if you think all it takes is hard work and desire you're view of others who don't work as hard as you and achieve more will be quite jaded. When we see people who can run faster, think better, learn faster we should look at them with admiration rather an than contempt.

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What you have taken, Has been from here
What you gave has been given here
What belongs to you today
belonged to someone yesterday
and will be someone else’s tomorrow

Change is the Law of The Universe

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“A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving.” – Lao Tzu


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:01 pm 
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Holyman
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tgrant wrote:
Quote:
Can we do anything that we want to do, that is humanly possible, if we put our minds to it?


In order for anyone to be able to do anything they set their minds to you'd have to believe we are all created equal and that just isn't the case.


Anything they set their minds to, if they wanted to do it…

The wanting to do it reduces the number of tests for the proposition.

“Can anyone do anything they put their minds to?”

Clearly not. Because a 90-year old woman with osteoporosis is never going to be able to run the 100m in less than 10 seconds.

Equally, a super-fit male Jamaican sprinter is unlikely to have the delicacy and sensitivity of touch required for fine needle-point work.

But it’s all irrelevant, because the lady is no more interested in sprinting than the Jamaican is interested in needle-point.

So they can’t be examples used to test the proposition, because they would never occur in RL.

As you say, we would require everyone to be created physically and mentally equal, if we were to allow that anyone can do anything…

…But because we’re only looking to survive, “…can do anything they might want to do…”, we don’t require homogeneity.

Which is helpful… Since no-one is an identical genetic copy of anyone else.

Not yet, anyways…



tgrant wrote:
That doesn't mean that we shouldn't encourage people to become the best they can be at things they are interested in. In my mind people should always follow their passions. However, if you believe you can do anything as long as you work hard enough you will be setting yourself up for failure...also if you think all it takes is hard work and desire you're view of others who don't work as hard as you and achieve more will be quite jaded. When we see people who can run faster, think better, learn faster we should look at them with admiration rather an than contempt.


Exactly.

In my Experience…

The harder you have to work at doing something, the more likely it is that you are doing it wrong.

You know you are doing it right, when it becomes really easy to do.

All this propaganda about “working hard” to “achieve your dreams”, is just a layover from Colonial Protestantism.

It’s just an attempt to get everyone working hard, and *NOT* achieving their dreams.

Anyone who dreams of working hard needs to see a therapist.

If you really, really, *REALLY* enjoy physically tough, monotonous and ultimately futile activities, then it isn’t going to be “work” for you: it’s going to be fun! You’ll do it even if you’re not getting paid! Hell, you’d pay to go somewhere they’ll let you do it..!

But if you think that just putting endless hours of your Life into activities that you do not find fulfilling or rewarding; that you don’t get paid anywhere near enough to do, given how much you hate fucking doing it; and which ultimately crushes your Soul’s opportunity to enjoy this Life, is a way of “achieving your dreams”…

…Then you are the victim of Cult brainwashing.

Holyman’s Toppest Tip for Personal Happiness and Professional Success:

*ALWAYS* follow the Line of Least Resistance. Whatever the *EASIEST* thing to do, is the thing you should be doing.

But you have to be honest about “Easy”.

Having to bow and scrape in order to obtain the materials you need to survive, is not always easy. Filling out endless Government Welfare forms, and hopping between queues and desks to get your claims approved… Not always easy.

Unless it *IS* easy for you. In which case: that’s *EXACTLY* what you should be doing.

College/University can require hard work.

…If you are stupid enough to pick a subject that you don’t find easy. (But frankly, if you do, that should be an automatic fail for your Intellectual Prowess…)

But even if there is some work to be done in Higher Education, it’ll make Life easier for you later in Life.

Possibly.

Unless University looks too much like hard work.

In which case: you won’t learn anything; you’ll probably fail; and you’ll be wasting everyone’s Time, including your own.

And your future earnings certainly won’t be based on your Academic Performance.

Future earnings…….

Easy is all about money, isn’t it..?

Easiest way to make Life easy, is to acquire a whole bunch of cash, isn’t it..?

Apparently not.

“According to Research”… Once your income goes above a certain level (c. $100k p.a.), your happiness starts to decline… Because your Life comes to be increasingly defined and therefore dominated by your financial position.

Below, say, $25,000 p.a., and Life can be a struggle, unless you are *REALLY* careful. The higher above that you go, the less of a struggle things get to be. But once you are reliably earning more money than you need to meet all your immediate existential requirements, any surplus money needs… Thinking about.

The concept of “Lifestyle” comes into play and substitutes for “Life”.

And maintaining a particular brand of “Lifestyle”… Can be hard work… Can take the Fun out of Life.

So money only eases up to a certain point; beyond which it provides only diminishing returns.

But…………

I don’t think “putting your mind” to something is the same as working hard.

I think it’s more about Mental and Temporal Focus.

How effective are we at keeping our minds focused on whatever we are doing?

Can we identify a correlation between our mental focus on the Task At Hand, and our success rates for the many tasks we undertake?

If we are “Present”, and our minds remain fully and totally focused on whatever activity we are engaged in, our chances of a successful outcome are considerably increased.

I have found to be the case, in my Experience.

:-bd

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