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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:33 am 
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Holyman
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Foota wrote:
Because it mandated that oil and gas companies reduce production by 35%.


Even my children know those Accords contain nothing binding or mandatory.

Why don't you?

Foota wrote:
The Climate extremists don't seem to make any distinctions between cleaner natural gas and other carbon based energy like crude oil and coal.


Scientists (a.k.a. "Climate Extremists") don't bother to make the distinction because there's only a slight difference in the rate at which consumption of both is poisoning the Planet.

"Crude oil and coal consumption is rapidly poisoning the Planet! Quick! Switch to a slightly slower-acting poison!!"

Foota wrote:
We can't reduce are Carbon emissions if we force a 35% reduction on the production of natural gas.


Who or what is going to force the U.S. Government (much less President Trump...) to do anything it dioesn't want to do?

Main reason the IGPCC targets aren't binding, was the vain hope that might encourage U.S. participation and co-operation.

Foota wrote:
We can't encourage natural gas companies to make the significant investment in natural gas wells if they are being told they need to go out of business by 2040.


I think you should do some research into the short-term commercial priorities of executives in the Energy Sector.

Foota wrote:
The better question is, why are countries like Germany failing to meet their climate goals despite signing up the Paris Agreement?


Why is that a better question than why did the U.S. withdraw completely from the Paris Accords?

:-?

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:24 am 
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Major General
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Once Coronavirus kills millions worldwide that'll largely sort out the pollution problem anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:57 pm 
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Colonel
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Slacks wrote:
Once Coronavirus kills millions worldwide that'll largely sort out the pollution problem anyway.


But the bodies need to be shot into space rather than cremated.


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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:45 pm 
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Bury them in the permafrost. It will start to regrow once we sequester their carbon.

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:02 pm 
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Holyman wrote:
Scientists (a.k.a. "Climate Extremists") don't bother to make the distinction because there's only a slight difference in the rate at which consumption of both is poisoning the Planet.


See - this is why we can't have nice things when dealing with Climate Extremists. Natural Gas is MUCH cleaner than oil and coal and is a perfect bridge fuel to reduce our carbon output RIGHT NOW - while we let our amazing Private Sector continue to improve non-carbon alternatives that won't drastically fuck up the economy and make everyone poorer or freeze to death.

America is beating every other country in carbon reduction - despite our BOOMING economy. Germany is spending billions on alternatives and is failing to meet its climate goals. But but but - at least Germany signed onto Paris - right? Don't even get me started on China and India.

Is this stuff important to you or not? A few months ago you were freaking out on about how "all the scientists" (and autistic children) were predicting the earth would be uninhabitable in 10 short years. If you really believe this nonsense, you should be fucking ecstatic that the World's largest and strongest economy is reducing our carbon output faster than anyone else and has excess natural gas to export to other countries to help reduce their carbon outputs as well. If you really believed the world was going to end in a few short years, you shouldn't care if we were burning up aborted fetuses or puppy dogs to power our economy - as long as we were reducing our carbon output.

So forgive me if I am a bit cynical about your purported environmental concerns. I think you simply hate that America is producing our own energy, getting richer and not hobbled by OPEC and Russia - even though natural gas is helping the environment. This fact contradicts over a decade of your prognostications and may put a crimp on your future YouTube talks.


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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:01 pm 
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Major General
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For reference:

Pounds of CO2 emitted per million British thermal units (Btu) of energy for various fuels

Coal (anthracite) 228.6
Coal (bituminous) 205.7
Coal (lignite) 215.4
Coal (subbituminous) 214.3
Diesel fuel and heating oil 161.3
Gasoline (without ethanol) 157.2
Propane 139.0
Natural gas 117.0

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=73&t=11

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:14 pm 
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Slacks wrote:
For reference:

Pounds of CO2 emitted per million British thermal units (Btu) of energy for various fuels

Coal (anthracite) 228.6
Coal (bituminous) 205.7
Coal (lignite) 215.4
Coal (subbituminous) 214.3
Diesel fuel and heating oil 161.3
Gasoline (without ethanol) 157.2
Propane 139.0
Natural gas 117.0

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=73&t=11


See - Natural Gas reduces carbon output by over 40% from the cleanest coal alternative.

Why on earth would we not want to burn the shit out of Natural Gas as an alternative to those dirtier fuels while we simultaneously work on non-carbon alternatives and renewables?


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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:16 pm 
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Captain
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Slacks wrote:
For reference:

Pounds of CO2 emitted per million British thermal units (Btu) of energy for various fuels

Coal (anthracite) 228.6
Coal (bituminous) 205.7
Coal (lignite) 215.4
Coal (subbituminous) 214.3
Diesel fuel and heating oil 161.3
Gasoline (without ethanol) 157.2
Propane 139.0
Natural gas 117.0

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=73&t=11


:-?

That's a lot of coal! :-O

You know, do to the miracle fracking, we can frack the shit out of a bunch more wells, and get you a cheap clean supply of natural gas to replace all that nasty coal.

And you'll have a slam dunk on your Paris Accord carbon reduction goals.

Just a thought... :>_

Also, natural gas is great for cooking, If we're use to cooking with an electric stove, and you go to a natural gas stove.....that's a fucking miracle!!

Natural gas can run your furnace, your water heater, your stove, your clothes dryer, and you can even hook it up to your barbecue outside. And if you're switching from electrical, it's money in your pocket.

And when your electricity goes out, it's still all works.

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:57 am 
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MIDNIGHT wrote:
And when your electricity goes out, it's still all works.


Can tell you firsthand with natural gas heating for air and water, when the power goes out so does it. But only in the sense of running. The pilot light doesn't die, the fuel supply requires no electricity, but the control, fan and ignition systems on them do.

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:01 am 
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Yep, no power, no thermostat, no warm


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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:20 pm 
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SomeGuy wrote:
MIDNIGHT wrote:
And when your electricity goes out, it's still all works.


Can tell you firsthand with natural gas heating for air and water, when the power goes out so does it. But only in the sense of running. The pilot light doesn't die, the fuel supply requires no electricity, but the control, fan and ignition systems on them do.


Yes I suppose you're correct about the fans... Been a decade and a half since I had natural gas anything...

But I thought you would have had some type of natural gas generator ready to go or at least a battery to run the fan on your furnace. :D

Stove top should still work perfectly well you just need to light it by hand since the electric igniter wouldn't work.

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:36 pm 
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Yeah some people get natural gas generators to power their electricity during a failure. It runs out quick though...pressure in the lines drops quick in a failure.

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:43 pm 
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tgrant wrote:
Yeah some people get natural gas generators to power their electricity during a failure. It runs out quick though...pressure in the lines drops quick in a failure.


Most of California's power plants are run on natural gas now. We have a shit ton of EV's in California so it is a double benefit that cars are getting powered by natural gas (and solar) as well instead of running on gas.

BTW - I got to test drive my co-worker's new Tesla Model 3 this week. It was just the base model, but holeee shiiit! It smoked by Chevy Bolt and was so fun and comfortable to drive. Can't wait to get one in a couple years when my lease is up.


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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:54 pm 
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I may go EV next...still think in Canada plug in hybrid is the way forward for the next 10-20 years. If I had to buy tomorrow I would look seriously at the new Toyota Rav4 prime that can do 40-60km on electric and plug it in when it gets home...but also has wicked good fuel economy from the gas engine. 40-60km would get me to my carpool buddies and back on electric and the days I drive would use minimal gas. Probably a tank a month. That's pretty damn sweet (would look a little ghey with 2 rav4's on my driveway though).

Natural gas just makes sense. The Russians used to have a natural gas commercial airliner. It never saw commercial success but natural gas powered jet fuel vs kerosene would be a huge way that airlines could phase out their pollution...with more and more natural gas hitting the market we could see a cost benefit in the not too distant future. ...if we don't all die in hell fire in the next 8 years.

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What you have taken, Has been from here
What you gave has been given here
What belongs to you today
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Change is the Law of The Universe

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“A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving.” – Lao Tzu


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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:08 pm 
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tgrant wrote:
I may go EV next...still think in Canada plug in hybrid is the way forward for the next 10-20 years. If I had to buy tomorrow I would look seriously at the new Toyota Rav4 prime that can do 40-60km on electric and plug it in when it gets home...but also has wicked good fuel economy from the gas engine. 40-60km would get me to my carpool buddies and back on electric and the days I drive would use minimal gas. Probably a tank a month. That's pretty damn sweet (would look a little ghey with 2 rav4's on my driveway though).


You should seriously test drive a Tesla before making a decision. The Y is coming out next month.

Even the cheapest base model 3 will have plenty of battery for your work commute with extra to spare. You can top off every other night in your garage or spend less than 10 minutes at a SuperCharger.

Tesla has some big announcements on their battery tech next month which is rumored to nearly double their capacity while bringing the cost down.

Everyone else is 5-10 years behind Tesla in battery tech and development. I think in 10 years, most automakers will be out of business or will be buying the battery packs and drive trains from Tesla.


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