It is currently Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:05 am

All times are UTC+01:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 761 posts ]  Go to page Previous 124 25 26 27 2831 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:30 pm 
Offline
Captain
Captain
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2002 12:00 am
Posts: 13193
Location: The OC
Slacks wrote:
Seems the yellow vest thing is catching, with brexiters blocking a bridge in London.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/b ... o-13733051



Yellow vest, here's the only Yellow vest I'm going to drape myself in.
Image

_________________
Radio Free Midnight http://www.twitch.tv/midnight562



Image

[**==] [**==] SomeGuy 2020 [**==] [**==]
[**==] [**==] It's going to be a [**==] [**==]
[**==] [**==] Brave New World [**==] [**==]


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:33 am 
Offline
Holyman
Holyman
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 16498
Location: Earth
Quote:
The long-awaited Brexit crunch has arrived. The prime minister is wedded to a withdrawal agreement almost nobody supports. Her authority within the Conservative party was permanently damaged last week. Parliament is hopelessly split over all the possible alternatives. These divisions do not follow party lines, further confusing the situation. The public is, by turns, baffled, alienated, alarmed – and increasingly angry at this collective national failure.

The main opposition party offers no clear path forward, fixated on forcing a general election that is beyond its reach. At this vital moment, on this issue, Labour lacks bold, imaginative leadership.

In Brussels, the EU 27 are adamant, and united, in insisting they have gone as far as they can. There is no more wriggle room, no more space or appetite for substantive negotiation. Bluntly, the game is up.

What is to be done? In our oft-stated view, the entire Brexit project was ever misconceived and ill-informed. The Leave campaign misled a decisive proportion of voters, some of whom now regret their choice. Theresa May’s subsequent approach to the EU negotiations was fatally skewed by her need to appease hard Tory Brexiters. She set unrealistic, unnecessarily inflexible red lines. She over-hastily triggered article 50. If Britain is out of time, it is because May set the clock ticking.

But all that is water under the bridge. The position today, with little more than three months left, is that May’s withdrawal deal is the only one on the table. All the rest – Norway, Canada, Canada-plus etc – are mere talk at this late, jittery juncture, not least because the EU has been clear that signing up to the withdrawal agreement and the backstop must come before negotiating any free-trade agreement. On that at least May and EU leaders were agreed on Friday. May claims binding adjustments could yet be made to the hated Irish backstop, but this is make-believe. This deal, as written, is as good as Brexit is going to get, although it represents a course of action that is very far indeed from being in Britain’s national interest.

Common sense, logic and the national interest thus demand that May put her deal before the Commons for a full, meaningful vote without further delay. If, as expected – and as befits it – it is defeated, May should accept the verdict of parliament. In practice, she would then have three options: she can resign and let another Tory try where she failed; she can declare Britain will leave with no deal at all; or she can ask the public to back her.

Taken by itself, May’s resignation would do nothing to resolve the Brexit crisis. Labour could call a vote of no confidence in the government, hoping to trigger an election. But if the Tories agree on anything, it is that they do not want to face the electorate. Such a motion would almost certainly fail, changing nothing. All responsible people agree, meanwhile, that the second option – an off-the-cliff no deal – would be a catastrophe. In fact, it is not an option at all.

That leaves a second referendum as the only sensible, logical course offering a path out of the Brexit morass. The choice on the ballot should be simple, between May’s deal – according to her, the best and only one available – and the status quo, meaning Brexit would be cancelled. Article 50 would be suspended while the vote was held. Parliament, which overwhelmingly endorsed the 2016 referendum result, would be honour-bound to accept this people’s vote, too.

For Remainers, there is the obvious risk that May and the Leavers could prevail. But in order to break the stalemate and begin the urgent process of reunifying the country, as urged this weekend by Church of England bishops, it is a risk that must be run, a challenge that must be met. A second referendum would give all those who want to maximise opportunities for our younger generations, while addressing the economic and social concerns of those who feel left behind, a chance to make their case – and save the country, at last gasp, from the Brexit cataclysm.

- https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... econd-vote

See also: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... endum-work

Difficult to argue with that.

If there is a Second Referendum (and I hope there will be), I'm gonna vote Remain.

My original “Leave” vote was motivated by the desire to Disrupt.

That was certainly effective. B-)

Now I’m thinking…

If the UK crashes out of the EU because… The Tories…

Well, que sera, sera.

But what *IF*, after this two year debacle, the UK remains a very, *VERY* pissed off member of the EU?

Here’s the Thing..:

The reason why nobody is really that [positively engaged] with the EU Project, is because the whole thing is dominated by Germany, and to a lesser extent, France.

The Germans can’t help that. They are just really efficient and effective at working together. Put them in a Committee Room with a bunch of louche Southern Europeans, or Self-Obsessed Brits, and the Germans are just going to crack on with what needs doing.

It’s in their Nature.

But this has rankled with other EU Member States, particularly the UK.

Because the UK has always sought distinctiveness, not parity with Germany and France in regards to the EU.

If the UK had committed to the EU Project early on (c. 1950’s), as a co-equal “Founder” member along with France and Germany, it would have had more influence in the direction of the European Project.

But the UK clings to its History as a former Global Superpower like a child clings to its parent’s apron-strings. Except in Public, where the UK presents itself as the wise and experienced Greek vassal state, to the U.S. Neo-Roman Empire.

Post-War Foreign Policy in the UK has always boiled down to balancing National Interest between the U.S. and European Projects. Easier during the Cold War, when the objectives of both projects were generally aligned. Not so easy now.

The EU is now no longer aligned with the U.S. Project, and is more in alignment with the Sino-Russian Project. It is Time for the UK to commit to either the U.S. Project, or the diverging E.U. Project.

Common sense and geography dictate that the UK must choose the E.U. Project.

Now a U.K. returning to EU Institutions after two years of embarrassing National Spectacle, is going to be in no mood to take its shame lying down.

Ultimately, the EU Commission will declare a diplomatic victory. Because their intention all along was to make the process of exit *SO* difficult, it would dissuade other secessionist movements elsewhere. If that strategy results in the UK cancelling Brexit altogether, that will be seen as a triumph.

Until an embarrassed, pissed-off, in-no-mood-to-be-conciliatory UK returns in Full Effect to the Organs of the EU.

Now I reckon *THAT’S* going to an opportunity for some *SERIOUS* Disruption.

[X++X] (*E*) [X++X]

_________________
Image

"Never trust what you believe. Trust only what you understand." - Me, 2018


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:29 pm 
Offline
Major General
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 32266
If we had another referendum and remained, and given what's going on in much of Europe in terms of pissed off people, it would be potentially a good opportunity for some serious reform.

However I think leave or remain I find the debate around it toxic and unhealthy. I'd plump for a soft EEA style Brexit - hopefully out enough to appease middle ground remainers and leavers. Maybe. Probably not.

It's a bit of a mess really.

_________________
barcelona wrote:
Pics of Someguy naked wrapped in bacon........


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:32 pm 
Offline
Major General
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 32266
Peter Hitchens wrote:
may I suggest what is known as the Norway Option? You are all blundering around as if you've never even heard of it. Yet it answers all major questions.

It does not require long years of detailed negotiation. We can lift it off the shelf, take it out of the box, and switch it on. It will work straight away.

It doesn't get us completely out of the clutches of the EU. We'd still have to pay some money every year (nothing like as much as now) and accept their regulations when we traded with them, which is reasonable. But we can, if we wish, govern ourselves in all other matters.

Remember, the vote to leave the EU was a narrow one. It was a clear vote to leave, but it was not a huge, overwhelming demand for some kind of wild triumphalist leap in the dark. 'In victory, magnanimity' is a good rule, set out by the Leave campaign's hero, Winston Churchill. It means that you treat your defeated opponents with courtesy and generosity, seeking to win them over to your position, not trampling on them.

By choosing instead to stay in the European Economic Area (EEA), we can leave the EU, make our own trade deals with non-EU countries, but stay in the single market. This (not the quite different Customs Union) is what allows us to have friction-free trade through the Channel Tunnel and across the Irish border. And no, it doesn't force us to accept 'free movement'.

EEA members are allowed to activate Article 112 of the EEA agreement, the so-called 'emergency brake'. Under this rule, tiny Liechtenstein has effectively managed to suspend 'freedom of movement' indefinitely, and operate its own quota system.

This is a precedent which Britain, with far more clout, can and should follow. The window is open.

_________________
barcelona wrote:
Pics of Someguy naked wrapped in bacon........


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:35 pm 
Online
Lieutenant-Colonel
Lieutenant-Colonel
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:00 pm
Posts: 17731
Location: teh internet
Will you guys just make up your fucking minds and get on with it?

Copy Norway, sure, or better yet, Switzerland - who have been happily going on with their lives this whole time while quietly laughing at the dysfunction of the rest of the continent.

The UK is so full of self-doubt it’s pathetic.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:42 pm 
Offline
Major General
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 32266
PBFMullethunter wrote:
Will you guys just make up your fucking minds and get on with it?

Copy Norway, sure, or better yet, Switzerland - who have been happily going on with their lives this whole time while quietly laughing at the dysfunction of the rest of the continent.

The UK is so full of self-doubt it’s pathetic.


Oh we've all made up our minds. It's just that we've decided on different outcomes.

Also not sure it's a self-doubt thing. Sure we'll probably be ok whatever the deal outcome, but when you're a country that hasn't independently made and implemented trade deals for a number of decades, it's inevitably going to get into complex debates on the various merits of each option.

It took Canaduh about 7 years to negotiate an FTA with the EU I think? We had 2 years, now only 3 months remaining, and we haven't even agreed on how we withdraw from the EU while we negotiate a new trade deal.

What's pathetic is how our gubberment has royally fucked this all up.

Fucking bullshit.

_________________
barcelona wrote:
Pics of Someguy naked wrapped in bacon........


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:57 pm 
Offline
Major General
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 32266
May has punted the vote on her deal to the New Year. It is starting to look more and more likely she's running down the clock so that MPs get squeeky bums about the no-deal prospect and vote for ANYTHING that avoids it.

Fucking bullshit.

_________________
barcelona wrote:
Pics of Someguy naked wrapped in bacon........


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:59 pm 
Offline
Major General
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 32266
PBFMullethunter wrote:
Copy Norway, sure, or better yet, Switzerland - who have been happily going on with their lives this whole time while quietly laughing at the dysfunction of the rest of the continent.


Forgot to mention that most Brexiters would not consider these deals a true Brexit and would consider it a betrayal. They generally want to end freedom of movement, strike global trade deals and no longer be under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. Norway and Switzerland deals dont deliver all of those.

_________________
barcelona wrote:
Pics of Someguy naked wrapped in bacon........


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:18 pm 
Online
Lieutenant-Colonel
Lieutenant-Colonel
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:00 pm
Posts: 17731
Location: teh internet
Slacks wrote:
Forgot to mention that most Brexiters would not consider these deals a true Brexit and would consider it a betrayal.


Give them each a free six-pack and they'll forget all about it.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:41 pm 
Offline
Major General
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 32266
PBFMullethunter wrote:
Slacks wrote:
Forgot to mention that most Brexiters would not consider these deals a true Brexit and would consider it a betrayal.


Give them each a free six-pack and they'll forget all about it.


As long as it's a 6 pack of something overwhelmingly British.

Image

_________________
barcelona wrote:
Pics of Someguy naked wrapped in bacon........


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:48 pm 
Offline
Colonel
Colonel
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:42 am
Posts: 24407
PBFMullethunter wrote:
Slacks wrote:
Forgot to mention that most Brexiters would not consider these deals a true Brexit and would consider it a betrayal.


Give them each a free six-pack and they'll forget all about it.



In engurlund it's four packs. Don't often see six pacts....

_________________
Empir immoto


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:49 pm 
Offline
Colonel
Colonel
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:42 am
Posts: 24407
Slacks wrote:
PBFMullethunter wrote:
Slacks wrote:
Forgot to mention that most Brexiters would not consider these deals a true Brexit and would consider it a betrayal.


Give them each a free six-pack and they'll forget all about it.


As long as it's a 6 pack of something overwhelmingly British.

Image



That's a pretty nice beer.

_________________
Empir immoto


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:30 pm 
Online
Lieutenant-Colonel
Lieutenant-Colonel
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:00 pm
Posts: 17731
Location: teh internet
barcelona wrote:
PBFMullethunter wrote:
Slacks wrote:
Forgot to mention that most Brexiters would not consider these deals a true Brexit and would consider it a betrayal.


Give them each a free six-pack and they'll forget all about it.



In engurlund it's four packs. Don't often see six pacts....


Why the fuck would you only want 4 beers?


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:39 pm 
Offline
Colonel
Colonel
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:42 am
Posts: 24407
PBFMullethunter wrote:
barcelona wrote:
PBFMullethunter wrote:

Give them each a free six-pack and they'll forget all about it.



In engurlund it's four packs. Don't often see six pacts....


Why the fuck would you only want 4 beers?




You buy 2x four packs....... O{DC}O

_________________
Empir immoto


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:42 pm 
Online
Lieutenant-Colonel
Lieutenant-Colonel
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:00 pm
Posts: 17731
Location: teh internet
I actually never buy 6-packs anymore... just big 650ml bottles of strong shit and tall cans to wash it down.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:48 pm 
Offline
Major General
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 32266
Jeremy Corbyn (leader of the opposition party: socialist) has just called for a confidence vote in Theresa May - but not the government.

Quote:
Unlike a full-blooded motion of no confidence, this has no legal force, would not bring down the government and the government has no obligation to find legislative time for it


https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/s ... heresa-may

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON I CAN'T EVEN

Added: if May doesn't give time for the debate tomorrow THEN Labour will put forward a no confidence vote in the government...which they can't do until the new year for scheduling reasons.

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON I CAN'T EVEN

_________________
barcelona wrote:
Pics of Someguy naked wrapped in bacon........


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:04 pm 
Offline
Colonel
Colonel
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:42 am
Posts: 24407
PBFMullethunter wrote:
I actually never buy 6-packs anymore... just big 650ml bottles of strong shit and tall cans to wash it down.



Our cans are 500ml usually. Maybe a bit bigger than yours?

_________________
Empir immoto


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:13 pm 
Offline
Major General
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 32266
barcelona wrote:
PBFMullethunter wrote:
big 650ml bottles



Our cans are 500ml usually. Maybe a bit bigger than yours?


Eh?

_________________
barcelona wrote:
Pics of Someguy naked wrapped in bacon........


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:14 pm 
Offline
Colonel
Colonel
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:42 am
Posts: 24407
Slacks wrote:
barcelona wrote:
PBFMullethunter wrote:
big 650ml bottles



Our cans are 500ml usually. Maybe a bit bigger than yours?


Eh?



I said cans...not bottles ....ehh?

_________________
Empir immoto


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:20 pm 
Online
Lieutenant-Colonel
Lieutenant-Colonel
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:00 pm
Posts: 17731
Location: teh internet
6-packs here are shitty small cans, like 350ml. Basically a mouthful, then you have to get up and grab another. This is for fools and suckers.

The tall cans are around 500ml, and I buy them as singles, usually in a nice variety.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:25 pm 
Offline
Major General
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 32266
barcelona wrote:
Slacks wrote:
barcelona wrote:

Our cans are 500ml usually. Maybe a bit bigger than yours?


Eh?


I said cans...not bottles ....ehh?


Thank you for the clarification.

_________________
barcelona wrote:
Pics of Someguy naked wrapped in bacon........


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:26 pm 
Online
Lieutenant-Colonel
Lieutenant-Colonel
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:00 pm
Posts: 17731
Location: teh internet
I wonder if the Germans have a Stuka beer. It could come with a droppable bomb.


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:28 pm 
Offline
Colonel
Colonel
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:42 am
Posts: 24407
PBFMullethunter wrote:
I wonder if the Germans have a Stuka beer. It could come with a droppable bomb.



Not with droppable bomb though ~X(


https://www.ratebeer.com/beer/revolutio ... ls/293011/

_________________
Empir immoto


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:40 pm 
Offline
Major General
Major General
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 32266
Slacks wrote:
Jeremy Corbyn (leader of the opposition party: socialist) has just called for a confidence vote in Theresa May - but not the government.

Quote:
Unlike a full-blooded motion of no confidence, this has no legal force, would not bring down the government and the government has no obligation to find legislative time for it


https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/s ... heresa-may

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON I CAN'T EVEN

Added: if May doesn't give time for the debate tomorrow THEN Labour will put forward a no confidence vote in the government...which they can't do until the new year for scheduling reasons.

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON I CAN'T EVEN


MAY HAS REJECTED TIME FOR THE DEBATE TOMORROW I CAN'T EVEN

_________________
barcelona wrote:
Pics of Someguy naked wrapped in bacon........


Top
   
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:58 pm 
Offline
Holyman
Holyman
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 16498
Location: Earth
I'm inclined to support the idea in that New Statesman article Slacks.

Think back 6 months ago: Corbyn was embroiled in some made-up, nonsensical antisemitism issue.

Eighteen months ago: Corbyn had only just fully established himself as leader of the Labour Party, having successfully neutralised the Blairite Wing.

But now, as the clock ticks down on Brexit, all eyes are on the Tories.

The slightest wrong move on Corbyn's/Labour's part may distract attention from what an appalling shit-show Theresa May and the Conservative Party are making of all this.

Labour have agreed a second referendum at their conference, albeit as a, umm..., "backstop" against failing "the 6 Tests", and no General Election.

Way I see it at the moment...

Unless the Tories pull something *SPECTACULAR* out of the Christmas bag...

There has to be a Second Referendum.

The Tories are on very shaky ground with it's "The British People Have Spoken [once, two years ago, before this whole shit-show started...]" line, on account of their not actually having a Parliamentary majority.

Fundamentally...

This is all Nick Clegg's fault.

The sole concession he managed to get from David Cameron, in agreeing to the Conservative-Liberal Coalition Government in 2010, was nothing to do with student fees, but the Fixed Term Parliament Act, that ensured David Cameron would not call an early General Election, as soon as he felt the Tories were popular enough to get a majority all of their own.

But for the Fixed Term Parliament Act, this pathetic excuse for a Conservative Party would have been booted out of Government a year ago.

Let's all go and kick Nick Clegg's head in.

>>::$

_________________
Image

"Never trust what you believe. Trust only what you understand." - Me, 2018


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 761 posts ]  Go to page Previous 124 25 26 27 2831 Next

All times are UTC+01:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited