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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:34 pm 
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Holyman wrote:
I do have a problem with those other regimes Foota.

But nobody around here is trying to defend, excuse or mitigate their behaviour.

So doesn't seem much point discussing them, does there?

>&8~


You don't complain about them either.

And they are very much part of your "Rest of the World" you always speak about that you WANT to counter American hegemony.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:55 pm 
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Foota wrote:
Holyman wrote:
I do have a problem with those other regimes Foota.

But nobody around here is trying to defend, excuse or mitigate their behaviour.

So doesn't seem much point discussing them, does there?

>&8~


You don't complain about them either.

And they are very much part of your "Rest of the World" you always speak about that you WANT to counter American hegemony.



What's the title of this thread?



You want to talk about those then start a thread.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:53 am 
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Foota wrote:
Holyman wrote:
I do have a problem with those other regimes Foota.

But nobody around here is trying to defend, excuse or mitigate their behaviour.

So doesn't seem much point discussing them, does there?


You don't complain about them either.

And they are very much part of your "Rest of the World" you always speak about that you WANT to counter American hegemony.


The United States of America is the most powerful military entity in the World.

The United States of America believes, as a Nation, that its “Manifest Destiny” is to lead all other Nations of the World.

Successive U.S. Governments since the end of World War Two have (and continue to) unilaterally and illegally threatened, bombed, invaded and occupied many sovereign nations. Each time these U.S. Governments attack another Nation, they always claim that it is in the best interests of Humanity as a whole.

Yet it is transparently obvious to anyone not permanently hooked up to the U.S. Propaganda Drip, that these offensively violent assaults on other Nations, are only ever intended to serve U.S. interests.

Although despite possessing the most powerful Military in the World, the U.S. rarely manages to achieve its goals.

The U.S. started a war with North Korea in 1950, which is still on-going. The U.S. devastated South-East Asia in the 60’s and 70’s, killing four million people, and failed to defeat North Vietnam. The U.S. installed a vicious dictator in Iran in 1954, and used Iran as an off-shore filling station, until in 1979, the Iranian People booted out America’s Iranian Dictator.

In 1980, the U.S. Government ordered Saddam Hussein to attack Iran, and provided materiel, logistic and intelligence support to Iraq, even when it used chemical weapons against Iranians. More than a million died in that conflict, and 8 years after it began, it ended without an Iranian defeat.

In the 1990’s, the U.S. Government pushed for NATO intervention in the Balkans, because it wanted to neutralise Russia’s ally Serbia. That all got very messy.

Something or other happened in 2003, that I can’t fully remember… But I know it was a bit dodgy, and a *LOT* of people died…

2011, the U.S. destroyed Libya (no other NATO members gets to unilaterally decide who to attack, so no, it wasn’t an Anglo-French operation).

In the same year, the U.S. Government allied with Al Qaeda, to try and destroy the current Syrian Government.

2014, the U.S. Government fomented a coup in Ukraine.

Oh, and the “Greatest Military in the World”, from the richest Nation on the Planet, has been trying for 17 years to defeat and subdue the poorest Nation on the Planet, Afghanistan. And it can’t.

Now, the United States of America is still, nominally at least, a democracy.

And there are several members of this Forum who are eligible to vote in U.S. Elections, including your good self Foota.

Russia is a democracy, but there are no members of this Forum who are eligible to vote in Russian elections. Nor is there anyone else around here defending the actions of the President and Government of Russia (pointing out that there is no evidence to support all the anti-Russian propaganda we are relentlessly exposed to, is not the same as defending Putin/Russia).

China isn’t a democracy. It is a Single-Party state that has hybridised Capitalism and Communism. There are no members of the OP who can influence the policies of the Chinese Government. Nor does anyone try to defend China.

Same goes for Iran. (See where I’m going with all of this..?)

You defend the policies and actions of the United States of America, and its allies in Israel and Saudi Arabia. The only reason you don’t defend the policies and actions of the U.S.’s more palatable allies, the UK, France and Canada, is because you have to believe that we British, French and Canadian OP’rs, are as patriotic and loyal to our Nation and Government, as you are. (We’re not.)

So…

Our World has many problems. All of them caused by human activity. And most of them caused by the policies of various and assorted National Governments.

We humans have to fix these problems, or Life will continue to get worse and worse for everyone.

Governments and politicians the World over try to convince us all that they are working in our best (national, usually…) interests.

But anyone with an ounce of intelligence fully understands that Humanity’s political systems are designed and operated to work in the best interests of politicians, governments, and the corporations who sponsor those politicians.

So our current politicians have to go.

Because their arrogance, pomposity, superciliousness, corruption, crimes and violence have made the Human World a dangerous place with a very uncertain future.

So here I am, trying to persuade an American voter to see how he has a wholly mistaken understanding of the way the Government of his country functions.

Because if I can persuade you that the U.S. Government causes far more problems in the World than it resolves…

I reckon I could persuade *ANY* American of the same!

So given all that…

What would be the point of me complaining about the actions and policies of other National Governments?

:-??

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:56 am 
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barcelona wrote:
What's the title of this thread?


Well, quite.

Though I don't personally spend too much time complaining about governments other than America's, I do think that Patrick Cockburn does an excellent job of objectively reporting on the machinations and missteps of various Middle Eastern regimes.

So, uh... This thread.

>&8~

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:21 pm 
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Holyman wrote:

So given all that…

What would be the point of me complaining about the actions and policies of other National Governments?

:-??


I dunno - you might gain some credibility and be taken more seriously by the people you are trying to influence?

When virtually 90% of your content is hyperbolic slagging on America as the "biggest war criminal on the planet" and the other 10% is often defending Russia and even North Fucking Korea - you cause alot of people (at least the Americans who you claim you are trying to persuade) to tune you out.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:53 pm 
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Foota wrote:
Holyman wrote:

So given all that…

What would be the point of me complaining about the actions and policies of other National Governments?

:-??


I dunno - you might gain some credibility and be taken more seriously by the people you are trying to influence?

When virtually 90% of your content is hyperbolic slagging on America as the "biggest war criminal on the planet" and the other 10% is often defending Russia and even North Fucking Korea - you cause alot of people (at least the Americans who you claim you are trying to persuade) to tune you out.


Credibility?..... =))



All your posts to do with th UK always mention how muslamic are taking over yadda yadda....Nothing any good just bad points.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:23 pm 
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Not exactly the Middle East.

Pakistani animals are rioting in the street because a Pakistani court overturned a death sentence against a Christian Pakistani woman accused of insulting Mohammed.

Hey - didn't the EU just pass a law making insulting Mohammed illegal too?

Quote:
A Pakistani court has overturned the death sentence of a Christian woman convicted of blasphemy, a case that has polarised the nation.

Asia Bibi was convicted in 2010 after being accused of insulting the Prophet Muhammad in a row with her neighbours.

She always maintained her innocence, but has spent most of the past eight years in solitary confinement.

The landmark ruling has already set off violent protests by hardliners who support strong blasphemy laws.

Demonstrations against the verdict are being held in Karachi, Lahore, Peshawar and Multan. Clashes with police have been reported.

The Red Zone in the capital Islamabad, where the Supreme Court is located, has been sealed off by police, and paramilitary forces have been deployed to keep protesters away from the court.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-46040515


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:36 am 
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Foota wrote:
Pakistani animals are rioting in the street because a Pakistani court overturned a death sentence against a Christian Pakistani woman accused of insulting Mohammed.


"Pakistani animals" Foota?

^^|^^

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:02 pm 
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I dunno HM, if they behave like ferral cunts, fair dooze to call em that.

I appreciate its a human condition, but humans can be total pricks and we shouldn't be shy of calling them out, or that would make us cunts (Got Sgt Bingam of The Departed in my head now).


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:59 pm 
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Holyman wrote:
Foota wrote:
Pakistani animals are rioting in the street because a Pakistani court overturned a death sentence against a Christian Pakistani woman accused of insulting Mohammed.


"Pakistani animals" Foota?

^^|^^


You are right. Animals is the wrong word.

Animals aren't as evil or as depraved as the fuck-sticks wanting to murder a woman for refusing to convert to Islam after taking a drink of water.

Quote:
"She had angered fellow Muslim farm workers by taking a sip of water from a cup she had fetched for them on a hot day. When they demanded she convert to Islam, she refused, prompting a mob to later allege that she had insulted the prophet Mohammed."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... h-sentence

And based on the reporting, it is not just a few fuck-sticks. But thousands and thousands of Pakistani Islamist retards trying to shut down the country for not murdering this woman.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:10 pm 
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Forgot that these same Islamist Pakistani fuckwits also killed 75 Christians attending Easter Sunday mass - a few weeks after murdering the governor of Punjab who lobbied to free this woman and reform their backwards and evil blasphemy laws.

2016 Lahore suicide bombing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Laho ... de_bombing

But don't you dare call them "animals"!

That's a hate crime in the UK and Europe these days - right?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:15 pm 
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Wunderschlung wrote:
I dunno HM, if they behave like ferral cunts, fair dooze to call em that.

I appreciate its a human condition, but humans can be total pricks and we shouldn't be shy of calling them out, or that would make us cunts (Got Sgt Bingam of The Departed in my head now).


Call them cunts then.

Or wankers.

It's the dehumanising aspect of Foota's term that I was pulling him up on.

These may be human beings behaving in a violent, regressive way (and there's no shortage of that kind of human being in our World...), but they're still humans.

Dehumanising people is a hallmark of violent fascism.

The U.S. Government kills far more people, far more violently than ill-educated, brainwashed Muslamics in Pakistan could ever dream of killing...

But you don't hear me dehumanising U.S. politicians, do you..?

[-X

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:18 pm 
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Foota takes notes from the Nazis in dehumanising people..

He's an incredible hypocrite

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:33 pm 
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DECEMBER 14, 2018

The Yemeni Dead: Six Times Higher Than Previously Reported

by PATRICK COCKBURN


The number of people killed by the violence in Yemen has for the first time risen above 3,000 dead in a single month, bringing the total number of fatalities to over 60,000 since the start of 2016. The figure is six times greater than the out-of-date figure of 10,000 dead often cited in the media and by politicians.

“We have recorded 3,068 people killed in November, bringing the total number of Yemenis who have died in the violence to 60,223 since January 2016,” says Andrea Carboni, a researcher on Yemen for the Armed Conflict Location and Event Data Project (ACLED), formerly based at Sussex University, that studies conflicts and seeks to establish the real casualty level.

The figures do not include the Yemenis who have died through starvation or malnutrition – the country is on the brink of famine, according to the UN – or from illnesses caused by the war such as cholera.

This number of Yemenis dying in the war has been played down by the Saudi and UAE-led coalition, which has active military support from the US, UK and France, and has an interest in minimising the human cost of the conflict. The coalition has been trying since March 2015 to reinstate in power Abdrabbuh Mansour Hadi, whose government had been overthrown by the rebel Houthi movement in late 2014.

Mr Carboni says that ACLED’s latest figures, which were released on Tuesday, are drawn primarily from information in hundreds of online papers and news sites in Yemen. The possible political bias of these sources is taken into account and different reports are cross-referenced using the most conservative numbers, to arrive at the final number.

ACLED executive director Clionadh Raleigh says: “ACLED’s estimation of Yemen’s direct conflict deaths is far higher than official estimates – and [these are] still underestimated. Fatality numbers are only one approximation of the abject tragedy and terror forced upon Yemenis.”

The 60,223 figure for those killed in the fighting is lower than the total fatalities in Yemen since Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman began the Saudi intervention in March 2015 because ACLED only began its count at the beginning of 2016.

But the organisation is now also conducting a count of those killed in 2015, whom Mr Carboni says he estimated “to number between 15,000 and 20,000”. This would mean that the overall figure for fatalities as a result of violence over almost four years of war would rise to between 75,000 and 80,000.

The steep increase in the number killed this year is explained by the Saudi and UAE-led assault on the port of Hodeidah on the Red Sea coast which is the main conduit for relief supplies reaching the Yemeni population.

This has led to a 68 per cent increase in the number killed in the first 11 months of this year, to 28,115, according to ACLED.

The number of those who have already died in Yemen may soon be far surpassed by the number likely to die because of hunger and disease. Some 20 million people are not getting enough to eat – 70 per cent of the population – and for the first time, 250,000 are facing “catastrophe”, according to the UN humanitarian chief Mark Lowcock, who has recently returned from Yemen.

He said that there has been “a significant, dramatic deterioration” of the humanitarian situation with those Yemenis facing starvation and death being concentrated in the four provinces where the fighting is at its most intense: Hodeidah, Saada, Taiz and Hajja.

A significant change in the conflict in Yemen is that the Saudi role in the war is coming under far greater scrutiny since the murder of dissident Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi by a Saudi team in Istanbul on 2 October. International revulsion over his killing has led to greater focus and criticism of the Saudi-led war in Yemen and the humanitarian calamity it has produced.

At the UN-sponsored talks between the Houthis and the Saudi-backed government being held in Sweden, delegates are discussing the expansion of a shaky truce in Hodeidah. Under this proposal, all troops would withdraw from the city and later from the province, leaving the UN with oversight over an interim administration. The UN envoy to Yemen, Martin Griffiths, said he wanted “to take Hodeidah out of the war” so aid could be delivered.

Another sign of a limited de-escalation of the war came on Tuesday with the Saudi-backed government and the Houthis exchanging lists of some 15,000 prisoners to open the door for a swap agreement. But the talks, set to last until 13 December, have yet to make progress on important differences over a ceasefire at Hodeidah, reopening the Houthi-held airport at the capital Sanaa, and the shoring up of the central bank.

The prisoner swap would take place on 20 January via Sanaa airport in north Yemen and government-held Sayun airport in the south – a process overseen by the UN and the International Committee of the Red Cross.

“We have exchanged more than 7,000 names from each side, including some 200 high-ranking officers,” said Ghaleb Mutlaq, a delegate for the Houthis.

The Trump administration is paying an increasingly high political price at home and abroad for its continued support for the Saudi crown prince and the war in Yemen, which are coming under strong criticism from both Republicans and Democrats in Washington.

Nevertheless, the administration says it will continue to back the Saudi-led coalition, claiming that this is necessary to combat Iranian influence and Islamic fundamentalists.

“We do believe that support for the coalition is necessary. It sends a wrong message if we discontinue our support,” said Timothy Lenderking, US deputy assistant secretary for Arabian Gulf Affairs at the weekend.

Even so, time appears to be running out for the Saudis and it is becoming clear that their long war may have destroyed Yemen but has failed in it purpose of defeating the Houthis.

Patrick Cockburn is the author of The Rise of Islamic State: ISIS and the New Sunni Revolution.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:54 am 
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DECEMBER 18, 2018

Will Anger in Washington Over the Murder of Khashoggi End the War in Yemen?

by PATRICK COCKBURN


The number of people killed fighting in the war in Yemen jumped to 3,068 in November, the first time it has exceeded the 3,000 mark in a single month since the start of the four-year conflict. This is about the same number as were being killed in Iraq at the height of the slaughter there in 2006.

The difference is that the Iraqis were not starving to death as is happening in Yemen. Aid organisations have long warned of mass starvation as 14 million hungry people are on the verge of famine, according to the United Nations. In a ruined economy, many Yemenis do not have the money to buy the little food that is available.

But at the last moment, just as millions of Yemenis were being engulfed by the crisis, a final calamity may have been averted.

On Thursday negotiators from the Saudi and UAE-backed forces and the Houthi rebel movement, meeting under UN auspices in Sweden, unexpectedly agreed a ceasefire in the port city of Hodeidah through which flows 70 per cent of Yemen’s food and fuel supplies. The Saudi-backed coalition forces and the Houthis have agreed to pull back their fighters from the city, which the coalition has targeted since June. It is the intensified fighting in and around Hodeidah that produced the spike in civilian and military fatalities.

The surprise breakthrough at the negotiations, which are meant to pave the way for full peace talks, has encouraging elements. Some 15,000 prisoners are to be exchanged and a humanitarian corridor is to be opened to the city of Taiz, which has long been a focus for the fighting.

Truce agreements after long periods of fighting are always shaky, as opposing fighters, locked in combat for years and regarding each other with the deepest suspicion, begin to disengage their forces. But, for once in Yemen, there are reasons for optimism, which have little to do with the warring parties themselves and everything to do with political changes in Washington and in the relations between the US and Saudi Arabia.

On the same day as the Hodeidah ceasefire was being announced in Sweden, the US Senate was unanimously approving a resolution holding Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman – architect of the war in March 2015 – accountable for the murder of the journalist Jamal Khashoggi in Istanbul two months ago. Bob Corker, the Republican chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and sponsor of the resolution, said: “I absolutely believe [Mohammad bin Salman] directed… I believe he monitored it. And I believe he is responsible for it.” Earlier in the month, after a closed-door briefing from the CIA director Gina Haspel, Corker said: “If the crown prince had gone in front of a jury, he would be convicted in 30 minutes.”

This is rough stuff and came in the wake of a 56 to 41 vote in the Senate for a resolution ending US support for the Saudi-led war in Yemen. The Senate is also demanding the release of political prisoners held for supporting peaceful reforms such as rights for women.

President Trump and the White House are still standing by Saudi Arabia, but they are paying an increasingly heavy price for this protection. Republican senators as well as Democrats are leading the attack on the crown prince and the Saudi role in Yemen. This assault is going to get worse for the Saudis when the newly elected Democratic majority takes over the House next year and steps up the pressure on the administration over its close alliance with Saudi Arabia. Trump may find that at the end of the day he is more vulnerable over his Saudi connection than his links to Russia.

Even if Trump does go on protecting the crown prince and Saudi Arabia, he will look for something substantive in return. This is likely to include an end to the Yemeni war, which the US once supported primarily as a favour to the Saudis. It is a clear sign that the balance of power between Washington and Riyadh has changed radically in favour of the former.

A less obvious reason why the war in Yemen may come to an end is that neither side is in a position to defeat the other side. Many in Saudi Arabia and among its allies may have believed earlier this year that capturing Hodeidah would be a decisive blow against the Houthis, but this was always a misconception. The Houthis are expert and experienced guerrillas who would certainly fight on against the less capable Saudi-backed government forces. They may well see impending famine as strengthening them diplomatically because it will provoke greater international criticism of the Saudi intervention.

The war has always been seen as a personal project of the crown prince, which, as defence minister, he launched in March 2015 in expectation of a quick victory under the revealing code name “Operation Decisive Storm”. But instead of victory there was a military stalemate, though this did the Saudis little political damage until recently. They claimed with some success that their war was a counteroffensive against Iran and western leaders, and media commonly referred to the “Iranian-backed Houthi rebels”.

But Iranian support for the Houthis was always limited, reportedly consisting of free oil product delivered outside the country to the Houthis who then sold it for cash. It is a mistake to think that Iran or any other power in the Middle East necessarily needs to deliver arms and ammunition in crates. Much of the Middle East is a black market arms bazaar, and this has always been particularly true of Yemen. Anybody with money to pay for weapons will never lack an arms dealer willing to supply them.

After the Saudis failed to win the war quickly in 2015, they largely lost interest in it though they could not afford to bring it to an end without some sign of success. The human cost did not concern them as they were receiving military and diplomatic cover from the US, UK and France.

The international media shamefully paid little attention to the war until the Khashoggi affair: a measure of this lack of interest was the lazy way in which news outlets cited the number of Yemenis who had died violently in the conflict at just 10,000, quoting a two-year-old UN figure which was, in any case, an underestimate. It was only after the Armed Conflict Location and Event Data Project (Acled) meticulously counted the number of those killed since January 2016 that it emerged the true figure for fatalities was 60,223. Acled estimates that, when it has counted the number of dead in the first year of the war, the overall figure will rise to between 75,000 and 80,000, not including those who have died from famine or disease.

Bizarrely, it was not the killing of these tens of thousands but the murder of one man, Jamal Khashoggi, which may help bring to a close one of the most unnecessary wars in history.

Patrick Cockburn is the author of The Rise of Islamic State: ISIS and the New Sunni Revolution.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:08 am 
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Great news! The brave soldiers of the Great American Republic have defeated IS in Syria and have no need to remain there.

Quote:
President Donald Trump's decision to withdraw all US troops from Syria has been met with strong criticism.

Mr Trump made the announcement on Wednesday, asserting that the Islamic State (IS) group had been defeated.

But major allies, including senior Republicans and foreign powers, have disputed the claim and say the move could lead to a resurgence of IS.

US troops have helped rid much of Syria's north-east of the jihadist group, but pockets of fighters remain.

Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, who is one of Mr Trump's supporters, called the withdrawal decision a "huge Obama-like mistake".


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46628811

Russia, Iran and Assad will surely miss their presence.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:46 pm 
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DECEMBER 21, 2018

Trump’s Abrupt Withdrawal From Syria Might Provide Exactly the Anarchic Conditions in Which ISIS has Always Flourished

by PATRICK COCKBURN


American armoured vehicles with their Stars and Stripes flying were patrolling today close to the Turkish-Kurdish frontline west of the Euphrates River in northern Syria. But how long will they go on doing so in the wake of the decision by President Trump to pull 2,000 US troops from Syria, claiming there is no reason for them to be there after the defeat of Isis? And when they do go, will this open the gates to a new and possibly very bloody phase in the seven-year-long Syrian war?

Turkey says it will invade and destroy the quasi-independent Kurdish enclave, which the Kurds call Rojava, once it is no longer under American protection. They say the Kurdish militants who rule the enclave “will be buried in their ditches when the time comes”.

The main Kurdish population centres are in cities and towns on the Turkish border which are within artillery range of the Turkish regiments massing on the other side of the frontier.

If there is a Turkish invasion of this vast chunk of Syria, it will provoke a mass flight of the 2 million Kurds in the area who live in terror of a Turkish incursion. When Turkey invaded the Kurdish region of Afrin at the start of the year, half the population fled and has yet to return.

The Kurds in Syria provided the foot soldiers for the US war against Isis whose “Islamic state” once stretched in 2014 from the outskirts of Baghdad to the Mediterranean.

The Kurdish-US de facto alliance began during the Isis siege of the Kurdish city of Kobani at the end of that year when US airstrikes enabled Kurdish fighters to defeat a ferocious Isis assault.

The US had found what it had long been looking for in Syria – a reliable hardfighting military force on the ground which could call in American airstrikes as it advanced and occupied Isis strongholds.

No wonder the Kurds now feel utterly betrayed by the US. Their fighters belong to the People’s Protection Units (YPG) which provide the main fighting units of the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) that also contains units drawn from local Arab tribes.

Mr Trump’s tweet announcing his decision to withdraw came after the SDF captured Hajin, which was the last town in Syria held by Isis.

The Kurds in Rojava might now look for a deal with President Bashar al-Assad in Damascus, in the hope of getting the Syrian army between them and the Turkish forces. The US departure will make it easier for the Kurds to look for protection from Mr Assad.

But how much is that protection worth since the Syrian army is not strong enough to stop the Turks even if it wanted to? Would Russia, the crucial supporter of Mr Assad, go along with such a move? It would be politically difficult for the Kurds to pivot away from cooperating with the US to working with Mr Assad, who the US is supposedly trying to overthrow.

As for Russia, Kurdish leaders say President Putin will always give priority to maintaining his good relations with Turkey regardless of what happens to the Kurds.

The Syrian Kurdish leadership will be hoping that the US will not totally abandon them. They know that much of the US political, military and media establishment, along with allies like the UK and France, want the US to stay in Syria. They know that Mr Trump’s policies have been diluted or reversed before when facing such wideranging opposition.

Turkey has been making menacing threats to invade Syria in recent weeks, and Turkish television has shown reinforcements being rushed to the border. Mr Trump’s decision may have appeared to come out of the blue, but it is more likely to have been taken because of this Turkish escalation.

Mr Trump does not want to teeter on the edge of a war with Turkey into which he might be dragged if US soldiers were killed by Turkish troops advancing into Syria. He will be able to revive the US alliance with Turkey as a major Nato power once US soldiers are no longer fighting alongside the YPG, who Turkey denounce as terrorists on the grounds they are a branch of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party, which has been fighting a guerrilla war in Turkey since 1984.

So long as Turkey, Russia and Iran are working in coordination, it will be difficult for Mr Trump to pursue his principle policy in the Middle East, which is to isolate and confront Iran.

Abandoning the Kurds may seem to the White House to be a reasonable price to pay in order to improve relations with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

There is another cost for President Trump, as he pulls US troops out of Syria saying Isis is defeated and Isis was the only reason for US soldiers being there.

But to what extent is this really true? It is correct that Isis, which four years ago controlled a vast territory in Syria and Iraq, no longer does so. It lost Mosul in Iraq and Raqqa in Syria after long and bloody sieges in 2017. Its fighters have suffered devastating casualties. Isis no longer rules a state with a powerful army controlling, at its height, some 6 or 7 million people.

However, Isis still has potential as a guerrilla force led by skilful commanders, and this potential will be far greater if it is no longer fighting the SDF, backed by US airpower. And even if US airstrikes still happen, experience shows that to be truly effective it needs ground troops able to identify targets and occupy territory – but, according to US officials, the order to withdraw also signifies an end to the US air campaign against Isis.

Isis has always wished that its great array of enemies, called into being by its cruelty and violence, would one day turn on each other and once again create the conditions for an Isis resurgence. This may now be happening. A Turkish invasion of northern Iraq would lead to chaos, mass flight by millions, and conflict between the local Kurdish and Arab populations: it is in such anarchic conditions that Isis was born and has always flourished.

President George W Bush paid a famously heavy political price in 2003 by prematurely claiming “mission accomplished”. Mr Trump will open himself up to a similar accusation if he declares Isis dead, and buried and this turns out to be untrue. His decision to withdraw has ended the stalemate in Syria, but it will not bring an end to its multiple conflicts.

Patrick Cockburn is the author of The Rise of Islamic State: ISIS and the New Sunni Revolution.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:06 pm 
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Wunderschlung wrote:
I dunno HM, if they behave like ferral cunts, fair dooze to call em that.

I appreciate its a human condition, but humans can be total pricks and we shouldn't be shy of calling them out, or that would make us cunts (Got Sgt Bingam of The Departed in my head now).


%-(

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:13 pm 
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Holyman wrote:

But you don't hear me dehumanising U.S. politicians, do you..?

[-X


Is this sarcasm?

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"FFs AV fuck off!.. Cannot you accept for once that your nation is a total cunt!?" — Barcie

"We all love a little rape... Who here hasn't raped?" — Barcie

"GRAPESHOT, n. An argument which the future is preparing in answer to
the demands of American Socialism." — Ambrose Bierce

"...your bloodlust sickens me". — Geronimo


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:12 pm 
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This is really shocking to me. Maybe Trump really is a Russian plant. I can't believe he would leave the Kurds out to dry like this. And then Mattis resigned, I think it's safe to say all of the adults have left the building. Disgraceful. This is the worst betrayal of US allies since we left the Montagnards to be annihilated by the NVA. The French are are not running away though.... https://www.france24.com/en/20181225-tu ... rd-militia

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"You'd be surprised how easily people fall in line when you have the deadly weapon." — Someguy

"FFs AV fuck off!.. Cannot you accept for once that your nation is a total cunt!?" — Barcie

"We all love a little rape... Who here hasn't raped?" — Barcie

"GRAPESHOT, n. An argument which the future is preparing in answer to
the demands of American Socialism." — Ambrose Bierce

"...your bloodlust sickens me". — Geronimo


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:39 am 
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Alaskan Viking wrote:
This is really shocking to me. Maybe Trump really is a Russian plant. I can't believe he would leave the Kurds out to dry like this. And then Mattis resigned, I think it's safe to say all of the adults have left the building. Disgraceful. This is the worst betrayal of US allies since we left the Montagnards to be annihilated by the NVA. The French are are not running away though.... https://www.france24.com/en/20181225-tu ... rd-militia


As long as we keep troops next door in Iraq (as I believe is the plan), we should be able to keep most of the Kurds reinforced and protected.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:29 am 
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Foota wrote:
Alaskan Viking wrote:
This is really shocking to me. Maybe Trump really is a Russian plant. I can't believe he would leave the Kurds out to dry like this. And then Mattis resigned, I think it's safe to say all of the adults have left the building. Disgraceful. This is the worst betrayal of US allies since we left the Montagnards to be annihilated by the NVA. The French are are not running away though.... https://www.france24.com/en/20181225-tu ... rd-militia


As long as we keep troops next door in Iraq (as I believe is the plan), we should be able to keep most of the Kurds reinforced and protected.


That really doesn't help the Kurds in Syria.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:13 pm 
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Slacks wrote:
That really doesn't help the Kurds in Syria.


What are you doing to help the Kurds in Syria?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:58 pm 
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PBFMullethunter wrote:
Slacks wrote:
That really doesn't help the Kurds in Syria.


What are you doing to help the Kurds in Syria?


Pointing out to Foota that this doesn't help the Kurds in Syria. In doing so he will adjust his voting accordingly which will directly result in America protecting one of their staunchest allies in the region.

You're welcome, Kurds.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:04 pm 
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The Kurdish military chicks with the long flowing hair are sexy af.


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