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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:00 pm 
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Foota's back yard.

Police: Man killed by officer pointed vaping device, not gun

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/28/us/califo ... index.html

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:01 pm 
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Foota wrote:
Junior-IRL wrote:
Shocking statistics, it's no wonder you have dumbass cops pulling the trigger at the drop of a hat, I feel sorry for those police forces in the states that DO train their officers properly & get lumped in with this bunch of ejits.


I think it is more shocking that the Government requires hundreds (even thousands) of hours of training to be "legally certified" to paint fingernails or cut hair.

Maybe if we had less government red tape like this, more people could be working or do entrepreneurial stuff instead of resorting to crime and getting shot by cops?


Fuck me, you never quit do you? Have you forgotten that most of the people referred to in cops shootings weren't committing a crime in the first place. Blah blah, less government tape. So you advocate LESS training for the cops?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:07 pm 
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Junior-IRL wrote:

Fuck me, you never quit do you? Have you forgotten that most of the people referred to in cops shootings weren't committing a crime in the first place. Blah blah, less government tape. So you advocate LESS training for the cops?


Don't get me wrong, there are some bad cops and we need more oversight and training in some cases. But it pales in comparison to the massive dysfunction, violence and murder we see in our black communities. Just based on the numbers of dead, police brutality is not even in the same fucking ball park as black on black crime.

More than half of the sensationalized police shootings over the past year - the dead dudes had guns or were fighting with cops.

The Ferguson meme of "Hands up Don't Shoot" was a total lie. It was branded the "lie of the year" only after the poor city of Ferguson was nearly destroyed by riots.
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/12/h ... lse-216736

The dude that just got shot in North Carolina causing riots in Charlotte had a gun and not a book in his hand. The dude also had a massive history of violence against his wife and other people.

Obsessing on made up controversies accusing cops of hunting down blacks is total bullshit.

Violent crime is now increasing in American cities for the first time in decades because of these made up controversies ginning up racial hatred. I can't blame cops for not wanting to aggressively police shitty inner city neighborhoods when they will often get falsely accused of racism or murder.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/25/politics/ ... des-rapes/


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:26 pm 
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MIDNIGHT wrote:
Foota's back yard.

Police: Man killed by officer pointed vaping device, not gun

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/28/us/califo ... index.html


I didn't even know we had black dudes in El Cajon? It's mostly Mexicans, Iraqis and cowboys.

So a dude is walking around acting crazy, blocking traffic and then rapidly pulls out his vaporizer and points it like a gun when confronted by cops.

What is the larger meaning of this particular tragedy? Are the El Cajon cops a bunch of racist murderers?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:57 pm 
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Foota wrote:
MIDNIGHT wrote:
Foota's back yard.

Police: Man killed by officer pointed vaping device, not gun

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/28/us/califo ... index.html


I didn't even know we had black dudes in El Cajon? It's mostly Mexicans, Iraqis and cowboys.

So a dude is walking around acting crazy, blocking traffic and then rapidly pulls out his vaporizer and points it like a gun when confronted by cops.

What is the larger meaning of this particular tragedy? Are the El Cajon cops a bunch of racist murderers?


No the cops were sent to investigate someone who was displaying behavior sign of either mental heath issues or possibly substance abuse. With again tragic endings.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:02 am 
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Foota wrote:
MIDNIGHT wrote:
Foota's back yard.

Police: Man killed by officer pointed vaping device, not gun

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/28/us/califo ... index.html


I didn't even know we had black dudes in El Cajon? It's mostly Mexicans, Iraqis and cowboys.

So a dude is walking around acting crazy, blocking traffic and then rapidly pulls out his vaporizer and points it like a gun when confronted by cops.

What is the larger meaning of this particular tragedy? Are the El Cajon cops a bunch of racist murderers?

V

So you support the shooting?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:02 am 
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Foota wrote:
cops a bunch of racist murderers?



Unlike race baiting Obama, Clinton and others I don't think it's a Racist issue. I think it's a police culture issue. Them killing a few people is not the only problem. Republicans will never fix it because they don't think there's an issue. Democrats will never fix it because want to believe or pretend it's largely a race problem.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:28 am 
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MIDNIGHT wrote:
Unlike race baiting Obama, Clinton and others I don't think it's a Racist issue. I think it's a police culture issue. Them killing a few people is not the only problem. Republicans will never fix it because they don't think there's an issue. Democrats will never fix it because want to believe or pretend it's largely a race problem.


I'd go with that.

Definitely a cultural issue within Law Enforcement.

But that's not to say that I blame the individual officers, or even their immediate superiors.

If I owned and operated a fireworks factory, and I hired a known pyromaniac as my warehouse foreman... Who would really be to blame when the walls blew out and the roof went into orbit?

The role of the Police Officer in Modern Times has moved far away from the role Sir Robert Peel defined for them. In fact, as the founder of Modern Policing, it has to be worth remembering how determined Peel was to make sure that his "Bobbies"/"Peelers" were in no way to be militarised, or worse, be seen as an extension of the Military.

That is a fundamental dynamic for any Police Force, and is one that has clearly been forgotten.

In the U.S., the Posse Comitatus Act, passed into law in 1878 (!), forbids the Federal Government from using the U.S. Army to enforce domestic laws. But that has now been circumvented by militarising the Police.

What's worse: not only are Law Enforcement acting as an extension of the Military; they are a very poorly-trained pseudo-military. I would actually have more confidence these days in having properly trained and disciplined military personnel enforcing Civilian Law, than the guys who set out to be Police Officers, but after a minimum of training, have been re-tasked as paramilitaries.

But I think the Event Horizon has probably been crossed now as well. Whereas it has been people who were attracted to careers as Police Officers who had to become Martial Law Enforcers; nowadays, the militarisation of Civilian Law Enforcement is attracting precisely the kind of recruits who probably wouldn't pass the Psych-screening required for the Military.

More broadly...

I think there is a core of Law Enforcement Officers who forget, ignore or never understood that their role is not to act as Judge, Jury and Executioner. Their primary duty is to Keep the Peace (don't think anyone calls them "Peace Officers" anymore, do they..?)... To protect and serve the Public Good.

If they observe or suspect a crime being committed, then their actual job is to apprehend the suspected criminal and get them in front of a Judge, who will actually decide on guilt, and whatever punishment is necessary.

I won't say that British Police aren't prone to heavy-handed behaviour... But not being routinely-armed, the number of civilians killed by British Police Officers in any given year, is less than the number kiled by American LEO's in any given week...

But to cite an example of differences in policies:

If British Police are involved in a vehicle pursuit of a suspected criminal, and that criminal's attempts to evade the pursuing Poice looks like it may threaten innocent members of the Public, British Police will call off the pursuit.

Better to let the criminal get away, than to risk injuring members of the Public.

But it does seem that in the U.S., apprehending, and if necessary (and sometimes, even if not necessary...) executing a suspected criminal, takes precedence over all other considerations.

For all the talk about Second Amendment Rights protecting the American Population from tyrannical Government... I do not think there is any population in the Developed World more likely to face death at the hands of Enforcement Officers working for their Government.

:-q

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:44 am 
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Just googled it out of interest & comparison, in the UK the MINIMUM training hours to qualify is 4000+

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:46 am 
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In the U.S. probably about 4 hours...

And that'll mostly be about how not to shoot your colleagues.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:53 pm 
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Apparently the dude killed in El Cajon was from Uganda and he was twice ordered to be deported for drugs and weapons charges.

Quote:
Olango arrived in the U.S. years ago as a refugee from Uganda. Since then he ran afoul of the law several times: selling cocaine, driving drunk, and illegally possessing a 9mm semi-automatic handgun when he was arrested in Colorado in 2005 with pot and ecstasy in his car, according to court records. He pleaded guilty in federal court and was sentenced to nearly four years for being a felon in possession of a gun.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/poli ... ficer.html

It doesn't appear the dude had a history of mental problems either - rather he was distraught after the death of a friend.

Quote:
A family lawyer said that Mr. Olango had been having an emotional breakdown over the recent death of his best friend.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/30/us/us ... .html?_r=0

Was this suicide by cop? Why would you pretend you are trying to shoot a cop with a vaporizer as opposed to simply complying with their instructions? Did these cops have no right to try and apprehend this guy after receiving calls from locals that he was blocking traffic and acting crazy?

I don't think this is a racist issue or even a police training issue. But that won't stop the riots and the usual morons trying to gin up racial tensions or hatred of cops where none should be had.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:03 pm 
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Foota wrote:
Did these cops have no right to try and apprehend this guy after receiving calls from locals that he was blocking traffic and acting crazy?


The cops not only had a right to try and apprehend the guy: they had a duty - that is their job.

But they didn't try to apprehend him, did they?

Assuming you comprehend what apprehend means.

:-??

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:09 pm 
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Holyman wrote:
Foota wrote:
Did these cops have no right to try and apprehend this guy after receiving calls from locals that he was blocking traffic and acting crazy?


The cops not only had a right to try and apprehend the guy: they had a duty - that is their job.

But they didn't try to apprehend him, did they?

Assuming you comprehend what apprehend means.

:-??


It is hard to apprehend a guy when they refuse police commands and quickly whips out an object that looks likes a gun and points it at officers.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:02 pm 
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I support the shooting
I would have shot the guy if I was there

He wanted the cops to think he had a gun
It worked
Case closed

On to the next dumb ass that will not listen to police commands

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:34 pm 
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Htown0666 wrote:
On to the next dumb ass that will not listen to police commands


Obligatory.

phpBB [video]


When the news broke on this San Diego shooting, I had a connecting flight in Charlotte, North Carolina and on the airport TV's running CNN the headline was "Black man shot by cops". What the hell? Basically a "Dog bites man story".


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:37 pm 
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Foota wrote:

It is hard to apprehend a guy when they refuse police commands and quickly whips out an object that looks likes a gun and points it at officers.

Image


Well in this case, based on this picture, it does look like he might have attempted suicide by cop.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:34 pm 
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Dumb ass.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:52 pm 
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Was he Mr. T?

:-?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:55 am 
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Don't push your luck ...

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:41 am 
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Can't believe that jay-walking is actually a crime in the U.S...

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:30 pm 
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Holyman wrote:
Can't believe that jay-walking is actually a crime in the U.S...

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The secret history of jaywalking: The disturbing reason it was outlawed — and why we should lift the ban
http://www.salon.com/2015/08/20/the_sec ... t_the_ban/

“Jaywalk.” The word seems better suited to a dance craze than criminal infraction. The jitterbug, the lindy hop, the jaywalk. Some trace the origins of the term to Syracuse, New York; others to Kansas City (home briefly to a bar called Jaywalkers). One of the earliest references to the practice is in an article in the Chicago Tribune: “chauffeurs assert with some bitterness that their ‘joy riding’ would harm nobody if there were not so much jay walking” (April 7, 1909). The quote reflects a mind-set of entitlement among the motorist class, a readiness to allocate blame to the lowest tier of traveler. In early America “jay” was a pejorative used to denote a rube or rustic, someone unacquainted with the niceties of urban refinement. To be called a jay was to have called into question your very sense of belonging, your right to exist within the city proper.

* * *

Before the proliferation of automobiles streets were shared by all manner of traveler. Crosswalks had not yet been established (the first one wouldn’t appear until 1911) and pedestrians had just as much right to the road as streetcars and carriages. Cars, in their earliest incarnation, were seen as interlopers, an unwelcome addition to the urban milieu. Traffic fatalities were not looked upon kindly by the general public. Angry mobs were wont to drag offending drivers (kicking and screaming, one would presume) from the comfort of their cars. According to the Detroit News, upwards of 60 percent of automobile-related fatalities in the 1920s were children under the age of 9. “One gruesome Detroit article described an Italian family whose 18-month-old son was hit and wedged in the wheel well of a car. As the hysterical father and police pried out the child’s dead body, the mother went into the house and committed suicide.”

By the close of the 1920s, automobiles had claimed the lives of more than 250,000 children and adults in the United States. In New York City, temporary memorials were erected in Central Park to commemorate the dead, as if casualties of combat. Automobile drivers were uniformly painted as villains in newspaper editorials, a menace to civic well-being. Cartoons depicted them in full reaper regalia, armed with sharpened scythes. The phrase “jay driver” prefigures its more common counterpart, appearing in print as early as 1905. (A 1907 headline in the Albuquerque Evening Citizen reads “Jay Drivers Imperil Life Each Hour in Albuquerque.”) The growing tension between motorists and pedestrians had larger class implications. While motorists tended to be men of means, the pedestrians they sought to displace were largely working-class. Andrew Mellon, during his tenure as secretary of the treasury, instituted a landmark tax reduction strategy, lowering the top marginal rate from 77 percent to 24 percent. The combination of lower taxes, flourishing markets and weakened unions led to prodigious levels of inequality. The chasm between rich and poor reached its pinnacle in 1928, with 23.9 percent of all pretax income channeled to the top 1 percent of families. Even with improved methods of production, automobiles were still out of reach for millions of Americans. As James J. Flink writes in “The Automobile Age,” “The automobile trade journals were agreed in 1923 that ‘illiterate, immigrant, Negro and other families’ were ‘obviously outside’ the market for motorcars.”

In 1923, Cincinnati residents pursued an ordinance that would require motorists to outfit their cars with mechanical devices called governors. The governors would switch off car engines if vehicles exceeded speeds of 25 miles per hour. Local automobile dealers mobilized to strike down the measure. Over the next decade the auto industry pursued aggressive action to take sole possession of public roads and, in turn, reshape the conversation around cars. The American Automobile Association, or AAA, sponsored safety campaigns in schools, educating students on the dangers of crossing the street in unmarked zones. Boy Scouts handed out cards to pedestrians, warning them against the practice of jaywalking. Mock trials were conducted in public settings to shame or ridicule offenders. The National Automobile Chamber of Commerce persuaded politicians and journalists to shill for their cause. The Packard Motor Car Co. went so far as to construct tombstones engraved with the name Mr. J. Walker. In Buffalo, beachgoers were treated to a public performance by the National Safety Council, in which a jaywalker was arrested, handcuffed and fitted with a sandwich board that read “I am a jaywalker,” and then ushered into a police wagon plastered with anti-pedestrian slogans. (“Hell is paved with good intentions, but why crowd the place? Don’t jaywalk.”) By the 1930s, jaywalking had been adopted as common law in most major municipalities. The term was near ubiquitous, and opposition to the automobile had softened to scarcely a whisper.

* * *

In Marietta, Georgia, a suburb of Atlanta, a young woman named Raquel Nelson was stepping off the bus with her two children. They had been shopping at the grocery store and it was late in the evening. The nearest crosswalk was three-tenths of a mile from the bus stop, so she—like many of the regular passengers—attempted to cross the busy road. She and her children were struck by an onrushing van, and her 4-year-old son was killed. The driver, it was later discovered, had alcohol and painkillers in his system. He had two previous hit-and-runs on his record and was visually impaired in his left eye. The driver pleaded guilty to fleeing the scene of the accident and served six months in prison. Nelson, soon after the funeral was held for her son, was charged with second-degree vehicular homicide, reckless conduct, and crossing a roadway in an inappropriate manner—in other words, jaywalking. These charges, in collaboration, carried a penalty of up to three years in prison. In the end, Nelson was sentenced to 12 months of probation, for doing nothing more than trying to get her children home.

Modern attitudes toward jaywalking can be traced to “broken windows” policies implemented in larger cities like New York and Boston. In 1998, Mayor Rudolph Giuliani instituted a citywide crackdown on the practice of jaywalking. The fine for walking outside of designated crosswalks was raised from a token $2 fine to a heftier $50 penalty. This past year, under the stewardship of Mayor Bill de Blasio, that fine was once again raised, this time to $250. However, just like stop-and-frisk before it, the clampdown on jaywalking has disproportionately targeted people of color. The Department of Justice report on the Ferguson Police Department revealed that 95 percent of those cited for jaywalking are black. In Champaign-Urbana, Illinois, that figure is 89 percent, even with a populace that is primarily white. A female English professor at Arizona State University was forcefully pinned to the ground by campus police after crossing the street to avoid sidewalk construction. Instances like these fail at maintaining even the guise of upholding public safety. So the question becomes, who is being served and who exactly is being protected?

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:31 am 
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http://us.cnn.com/2017/05/02/us/texas-c ... index.html

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 12:48 am 
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francois-xavier c. wrote:
http://us.cnn.com/2017/05/02/us/texas-cop-kills-teen-trnd/index.html


and the cops are investigating it as a wrongful death.

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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 8:26 pm 
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This one's a real gem.
phpBB [video]

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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 8:44 pm 
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Every single one of them are equally guilty.

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