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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:48 pm 
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Very cool

https://theoceancleanup.com/rivers/



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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:24 am 
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tgrant wrote:
Very cool

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I can't hear it, my son is still using my mic, but that is fucking awesome!!! :-O


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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:51 am 
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Shall we all club together and buy D a gaming headset for Christmas?

Or better still: buy her son an awesome one, so Mum can have the one caked in food and drink....

:)

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:42 pm 
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'Grand Tour' host Jeremy Clarkson calls Greta Thunberg an 'idiot,' blames her for his show's struggles


“Speaking exclusively to The Sun, Jeremy, 59, ranted: “Everyone I know under 25 isn’t the slightest bit interested in cars — Greta Thunberg has killed the car show.

“They’re taught at school, before they say ‘Mummy and Daddy’, that cars are evil, and it’s in their heads.”

His long-term sidekick Richard Hammond, 49, agrees: “I hate to say it, but I think Jeremy is right.”

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/j ... a-thunberg

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:57 pm 
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This should be in the "Fissures" thread.

:-"

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:00 pm 
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'Cos yeah Jezza, it was definitely a 16-year old girl nobody had heard of who killed your show.

And not you behaving like an egotistical dickhead and treating your staff and audiences like shit.

Gotta move with the Times, or get left behind.

I thought you knew all about speed, JC...

But you appear to be going backwards....

:-?

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:04 pm 
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Again I’m just posting someone else quote and you people are showering me with hate.

:(

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:13 pm 
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MIDNIGHT wrote:
Again I’m just posting someone else quote and you people are showering me with hate.

:(


:-?

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:26 pm 
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Slacks wrote:
MIDNIGHT wrote:
Again I’m just posting someone else quote and you people are showering me with hate.

:(


:-?



Yeah I’m talking to you hater!

Don’t kill the messenger :(

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:47 pm 
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My kids still love cars...gas and electric. Love car shows too. Loved JC's old show till Joey took it over.

Besides the environmental extinction idiots probably hold the record for fastest rise and fall of a movement. From what I can see they are already done and we are all moving along nicely. I think it was that doctor on his way to work who broke up that protest....i think he single handedly ended it. ^:)^ ....anyway can't blame them JC...probably more to do with the fact that you want your shows to be all about you instead of the cars....and you're a cunt.

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:23 am 
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Climate change: COP25 talks open as 'point of no return' in sight

Political leaders and climate diplomats are meeting in Madrid for two weeks of talks amid a growing sense of crisis.

According to UN Secretary General António Guterres, "the point of no return is no longer over the horizon".

Meanwhile, Save the Children says that climate shocks have left millions in Africa facing hunger.

The charity says 33 million people are at emergency levels of food insecurity due to cyclones and droughts.

This conference of the parties, or COP25, was due to be held in Chile but was cancelled by the government due to weeks of civil disturbances.

Spain then stepped in to host the event, which will see 29,000 attendees over the two weeks of talks.

Speaking ahead of the meeting the UN secretary general said the climate crisis was imminent and political leaders had to respond.

"In the crucial 12 months ahead, it is essential that we secure more ambitious national commitments - particularly from the main emitters - to immediately start reducing greenhouse gas emissions at a pace consistent to reaching carbon neutrality by 2050.

"We simply have to stop digging and drilling and take advantage of the vast possibilities offered by renewable energy and nature-based solutions," Mr Guterres said.

Almost every country in the world has now signed and ratified the Paris climate agreement and under the terms of the pact they will all have to put new climate pledges on the table before the end of 2020.

Countdown to Glasgow

This meeting in Madrid signals the start of a frantic 12 months of negotiations that will culminate in Glasgow with COP26 in November next year.

Some 50 world leaders are expected to attend the meeting in the Spanish capital - but US President Donald Trump will not be among them.

However, Speaker of the House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi, will attend the conference with a congressional delegation.

>*^*<

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:41 pm 
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We should have a big “point of no return” party. >:D<


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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:46 pm 
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Holyman wrote:

Some 50 world leaders are expected to attend the meeting in the Spanish capital - but US President Donald Trump will not be among them.

>*^*<


I bet China and India will show - but won't agree to any meaningful reductions.

So what's the point of burning all of this carbon getting everyone together halfway around the world for another tedious climate summit?


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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:09 pm 
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Foota wrote:
Holyman wrote:

Some 50 world leaders are expected to attend the meeting in the Spanish capital - but US President Donald Trump will not be among them.

>*^*<


I bet China and India will show - but won't agree to any meaningful reductions.

So what's the point of burning all of this carbon getting everyone together halfway around the world for another tedious climate summit?


Free booze?

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:56 pm 
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What's the point of being a world leader if you don't get to jet around and schmooze at fancy dinners?


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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:32 am 
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Holyman wrote:
Climate change: COP25 talks open as 'point of no return' in sight

Political leaders and climate diplomats are meeting in Madrid for two weeks of talks amid a growing sense of crisis.

According to UN Secretary General António Guterres, "the point of no return is no longer over the horizon".

Meanwhile, Save the Children says that climate shocks have left millions in Africa facing hunger.

The charity says 33 million people are at emergency levels of food insecurity due to cyclones and droughts.

This conference of the parties, or COP25, was due to be held in Chile but was cancelled by the government due to weeks of civil disturbances.

Spain then stepped in to host the event, which will see 29,000 attendees over the two weeks of talks.

Speaking ahead of the meeting the UN secretary general said the climate crisis was imminent and political leaders had to respond.

"In the crucial 12 months ahead, it is essential that we secure more ambitious national commitments - particularly from the main emitters - to immediately start reducing greenhouse gas emissions at a pace consistent to reaching carbon neutrality by 2050.

"We simply have to stop digging and drilling and take advantage of the vast possibilities offered by renewable energy and nature-based solutions," Mr Guterres said.

Almost every country in the world has now signed and ratified the Paris climate agreement and under the terms of the pact they will all have to put new climate pledges on the table before the end of 2020.

Countdown to Glasgow

This meeting in Madrid signals the start of a frantic 12 months of negotiations that will culminate in Glasgow with COP26 in November next year.

Some 50 world leaders are expected to attend the meeting in the Spanish capital - but US President Donald Trump will not be among them.

However, Speaker of the House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi, will attend the conference with a congressional delegation.

>*^*<



Ok so time to neutron bomb China and India out of existence, then tell those African countries they are so worried about if they don’t stop burning dung and making charcoal or they get the same.

Then build a shit load of modern nuclear power plant to bridge the gap until we have fusion or full coverage solar.

Also have Greta and her cadres of neo-Khmer Rouge, execute any activists and politicians who show up to the next conference in private jets and kick their bodies into a ditch.

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:11 am 
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Why bomb China and India out of existence?

Chinese and Indian GHG output per capita is much lower than say, the United States'.

(2014 Figures - metric tonnes per capita)

43.9 - Qatar
37.7 - Curacao
34.0 - Trinidad and Tobago
25.8 - Kuwait
23.5 - Bahrain
22.9 - U.A.E.
22.2 - Brunei
19.4 - Saudi Arabia
17.4 - Luxembourg
16.5 - United States
15.7 - Gibraltar
15.4 - Australia
15.2 - Oman
15.2 - Canada
14.8 - Estonia
14.4 - Kazakhstan
12.5 - Turkmenistan
11.9 - Russia
11.6 - Korea
10.3 - Singapore
9.9 - Netherlands
9.5 - Japan
9.3 - Norway
9.2 - Czech Republic
9.0 - South Africa
9.0 - Libya
8.9 - Germany
8.7 - Finland
8.4 - Iran
8.3 - Belgium
8.1 - Malaysia
7.9 - Israel
7.7 - New Zealand
7.5 - China
7.5 - Poland
7.3 - Ireland
7.1 - Mongolia
6.9 - Austria
6.7 - Belarus
6.5 - United Kingdom
6.4 - Bosnia and Herzegovina
6.2 - Slovenia
6.1 - Iceland
5.9 - Denmark
5.9 - Bulgaria
5.3 - Serbia
5.3 - Italy
5.0 - Spain
5.0 - Ukraine
4.9 - Iraq
4.8 - Argentina
4.6 - Chile
4.6 - Thailand
4.6 - France
4.5 - Turkey
4.5 - Sweden
4.4 - Lithuania
4.3 - Portugal
4.3 - Switzerland
4.3 - Hungary
4.0 - Mexico
3.7 - Algeria
3.6 - Suriname
3.4 - Uzbekistan
3.1 - Cuba
2.8 - Ecuador
2.6 - Brazil
2.4 - Georgia
2.3 - Panama
2.2 - Egypt
2.1 - Peru
2.0 - Uruguay
1.9 - Bolivia
1.8 - Vietnam
1.8 - Morocco
1.7 - India
1.6 - Syria
1.4 - Moldova
1.2 - Guatemala
1.0 - El Salvador
0.9 - Zimbabwe
0.8 - Nicaragua
0.6 - Tajikistan
0.6 - Palestine
0.5 - Ghana
0.5 - Bangladesh
0.3 - Kenya
0.2 - Tanzania
0.1 - Madagascar
0.0 - Burundi.

...

Can anyone make the case for why CO2-per-country is a more useful or relevant figure than CO2-per-capita?

:!!

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:03 pm 
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Well...you're not looking at CO2 per capita....you're looking at CO2 per capita by country...so seems like you feel there is some significance in breaking it down by country....

Probably better to take country right out of the equation and look at just the individual. Rank the top people around the world. Then look at their contributions to society and see if it makes sense.

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Change is the Law of The Universe

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:43 pm 
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Hmm… It’s a good point tG… Let me see if I can wiggle my way out of it!

The Reactionary’s point-of-view is that China (population 1.35bn) and India (population 1.33bn) are far worse polluters than, say, the United States of America (population 375m).

Whereas the Progressive looks at per capita output, because, we’re all in this together, and it’s really about us all taking responsibility for reducing our *OWN* CO2 output, rather than pointing fingers at others.

I’ve gone for per capita per country to illustrate to the Reactionaries why the whole CO2 per country figure is purely for Nationalistic Propaganda purposes and to justify ignoring one’s own National responsibilities.

But whilst I think about it…

Using Nations to delineate (all) Human CO2 output on a per capita basis is… Purposeful.

Clearly, efforts to try and reduce CO2 production on a Nation-by-Nation basis is doomed to failure, because it requires those Nations' politicians to agree with one another.

And that ain't gonna happen any time soon.

However…

Advertising and generally emphasizing a Nation’s per capita CO2 production gives all of the Citizens of those nations a metric they can understand and actively work to reduce, without any assistance from National politicians.

In fact, now that I come to think about it…

For the foreseeable future, all Nations should have their per capita CO2 production figure appended in parenthesis in *ALL* official documents and news reporting!

E.g.

”Tuesday 3rd December, 2019

The President of the United States (16.5) is meeting with the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom (6.5) today, to discuss NATO and its relations with the Russian Federation (11.9) and the People’s Republic of China (7.5).”


That sort of thing.

:D

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:28 pm 
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Valiant effort...but should all CO2 consumption be treated the same? For example if a doctor is flying to Africa for Doctors without borders should that count against him? or the people he is helping? If politicians are flying to Ireland to (in theory) work towards reducing climate change, should that count against them?

If climate scientist are flying to the Antarctic to perform research on climate change and burning huge amounts of oil to keep their research facility livable would that count against them?

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What you have taken, Has been from here
What you gave has been given here
What belongs to you today
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and will be someone else’s tomorrow

Change is the Law of The Universe

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:17 pm 
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Holyman wrote:
Why bomb China and India out of existence?

Chinese and Indian GHG output per capita is much lower than say, the United States'.

(2014 Figures - metric tonnes per capita)

43.9 - Qatar
37.7 - Curacao
34.0 - Trinidad and Tobago
25.8 - Kuwait
23.5 - Bahrain
22.9 - U.A.E.
22.2 - Brunei
19.4 - Saudi Arabia
17.4 - Luxembourg
16.5 - United States
15.7 - Gibraltar
15.4 - Australia
15.2 - Oman
15.2 - Canada
14.8 - Estonia
14.4 - Kazakhstan
12.5 - Turkmenistan
11.9 - Russia
11.6 - Korea
10.3 - Singapore
9.9 - Netherlands
9.5 - Japan
9.3 - Norway
9.2 - Czech Republic
9.0 - South Africa
9.0 - Libya
8.9 - Germany
8.7 - Finland
8.4 - Iran
8.3 - Belgium
8.1 - Malaysia
7.9 - Israel
7.7 - New Zealand
7.5 - China
7.5 - Poland
7.3 - Ireland
7.1 - Mongolia
6.9 - Austria
6.7 - Belarus
6.5 - United Kingdom
6.4 - Bosnia and Herzegovina
6.2 - Slovenia
6.1 - Iceland
5.9 - Denmark
5.9 - Bulgaria
5.3 - Serbia
5.3 - Italy
5.0 - Spain
5.0 - Ukraine
4.9 - Iraq
4.8 - Argentina
4.6 - Chile
4.6 - Thailand
4.6 - France
4.5 - Turkey
4.5 - Sweden
4.4 - Lithuania
4.3 - Portugal
4.3 - Switzerland
4.3 - Hungary
4.0 - Mexico
3.7 - Algeria
3.6 - Suriname
3.4 - Uzbekistan
3.1 - Cuba
2.8 - Ecuador
2.6 - Brazil
2.4 - Georgia
2.3 - Panama
2.2 - Egypt
2.1 - Peru
2.0 - Uruguay
1.9 - Bolivia
1.8 - Vietnam
1.8 - Morocco
1.7 - India
1.6 - Syria
1.4 - Moldova
1.2 - Guatemala
1.0 - El Salvador
0.9 - Zimbabwe
0.8 - Nicaragua
0.6 - Tajikistan
0.6 - Palestine
0.5 - Ghana
0.5 - Bangladesh
0.3 - Kenya
0.2 - Tanzania
0.1 - Madagascar
0.0 - Burundi.

...

Can anyone make the case for why CO2-per-country is a more useful or relevant figure than CO2-per-capita?

:!!


Seriously i can’t take you seriously.

I was going to argue this with you, but what’s the point.

Please surprise neutron bomb the U.S. out of existence and then ride unicorns off into your green new utopia.

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:05 pm 
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tgrant wrote:
Valiant effort...but should all CO2 consumption be treated the same? For example if a doctor is flying to Africa for Doctors without borders should that count against him? or the people he is helping? If politicians are flying to Ireland to (in theory) work towards reducing climate change, should that count against them?

If climate scientist are flying to the Antarctic to perform research on climate change and burning huge amounts of oil to keep their research facility livable would that count against them?


Yes to all counts if you want to measure per capita. The "carbon cost" of jetsetting everywhere offsets any number of lives you might save as part of Doctors Without Borders.

Per capita is a poor measure anyways, especially since they don't reflect real world effects. Look up a beach, any beach in the US and Canada and they all look the same, nice and clean. Look up beaches in Indonesia, India and China and they're trashy in the sense they're literally covered in trash and all the environmental problems that might imply. But the clean beaches of the US and Canada are not preferable because per capita they do more carbon.

It's like the issue of the Great Pacific Garbage Patch, the majority of it comes from Asia but somehow the developed countries in Europe and North America are to blame. Or the destruction of the Aral Sea a 100% manmade environmental catastrophe replicable again and again under laboratory settings. (Unlike climate change.) Somehow the destruction of the Aral Sea environment pales in comparison to cow farts in Colorado.

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:08 pm 
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tgrant wrote:
Valiant effort...but should all CO2 consumption be treated the same? For example if a doctor is flying to Africa for Doctors without borders should that count against him? or the people he is helping? If politicians are flying to Ireland to (in theory) work towards reducing climate change, should that count against them?

If climate scientist are flying to the Antarctic to perform research on climate change and burning huge amounts of oil to keep their research facility livable would that count against them?


Ah-hah!

I think I've just worked out what the Problem is..!!!

Too many people think this an issue about *WHO TO BLAME* (for various forms of Environmental Degradation), rather than how Humanity can survive itself.

I'll explain:

Look at your flying African doctor example tG: "Should it count against him?"

I'm not really sure what you mean by that?

My perspective:

Human beings are collectively polluting the Planet, and we are being advised by those-who-know-about-these-things, that if Humanity keeps doing this, it will eventually drown in its own shit.

Fair enough. Even though I don't know about these things,that seems like a fairly common sense observation that you probably shouldn't need the combined weight of Humanity's Scientists to point out.

Next challenge then: what can be done about it?

Well, it seems again fairly clear from my perspective: we all need to reduce our individual contributions to pollution, whilst we wait for the Politicians to tell us what we should do Collectively.........

And what better way to visualise the work we need to do than to see how much pollution we are all creating individually?

I'd respond to a knee-jerk challenge like the one about the African Flying Doctor by saying that s/he isn't flying because he personally wants or needs to, but because her/his patients need it.

Therefore the CO2 generated won't go in his ledger, but in those of his patients. And since per capita CO2 production is at it's lowest in Sub-Saharan Africa, we can probably make allowances.

But critically: we need to use CO2 metrics to measure how effectively we are addressing that particular (and emblematic) Environmental challenge.

We're not really in any position to play the Blame Game until we get the All Clear.

We just need to know what - if any - progress we are making in a way that is easy for everyone to grasp.

Per capita CO2 metrics provide that.

:-??

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:14 am 
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Exactly. Why are we blaming people for CO2 consumption by labeling them based on it. Should a volunteer driving to a soup kitchen feel bad about consuming gas? Should a country feel bad about CO2 used to ship aid to fellow nations. The only thing the acidifying oceans give a shit about is total CO2 output globally. That's the only number that counts. Let's focus on the amazing things being done to help create a cleaner planet. Didn't anyone watch that awesome video of how they are going to clean the plastic out of the rivers?!? F'ing brilliant!!

But...wait...are we even sure that not burning CO2 is the right thing to do??? Take that person in sub-Saharan Africa. Should they feel good about their low CO2 score? Or should they be looking to (and us encouraging them to) burn more of the stuff in an effort to lift up their society. 38% of neonatal deaths on the planet come out of there. Over a third of the babies dying are dying there. Not good. Far greater priority than trying to figure out a way to accurately label people based on their CO2 consumption.

I would prefer they ignore their CO2 score and worry about that problem first. More kids that grow up healthy and educated means the more good brains we have to solve tomorrows problems.

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 Post subject: Re: Pollution
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:01 am 
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The CO2 score is apparently all that matters. It's why apparently under the Paris Climate Accords the US should bomb itself back to the 18th century while China is allowed to do as it pleases.

Nevermind that China is now dealing with episodes of "Great Smog" that the US and Britain became all too familiar with....over 60 years ago. Nevermind that speaking of China, the Yangtze dolphin is believed to be extinct owing to excessive pollution of the river. Nevermind that by all metrics, China is now the worldwide leader of pollution in all sources.

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